#8 - Kristen Dionne
Episode #8 - Kristen Dionne on empathy and the power of Rule #6
Show Notes
On this episode of The First 10 Podcast, I talk to Kristen Dionne, who is a co-founder of Accomplice Content, a video content agency based in Halifax, Canada.
Key Points
The first 10 people you meet aren’t going to be your first 10 customers
Remember Rule #6!
People want to feel like you are listening to them
Show Notes
https://www.accomplicecontent.ca/
Rule #6
The Art Of Possibility by Benjamin and Rosamund Zander
Contact Details
https://twitter.com/AccompliceCSC
https://www.linkedin.com/company/accomplice-content-supply-co-/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristen-schnare/
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Transcription
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, business, customers, bit, halifax, working, founder, programme, podcast, loan, animation, world, job, talk, years, pandemic, production, find, idea, stressful
SPEAKERS Conor McCarthy, Kristen Dionne
Kristen Dionne 00:00
The first 10 people you meet aren't going to be your first 10 customers and that's okay. They shouldn't be because you're not for everyone. You can't be for everyone, right? The first 10 can come from anywhere, and it's probably likely that they're coming. They're not coming to knock on your door out of the blue. They're people, you know, they're people in your circle. They're people who have had experience with you before some other way and are willing to try something out because they trust you.
Conor McCarthy 00:24
Hello, Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the first 10 podcast where I interview Business Builders on their first 10 customers who they were, how they found them, how they talked to them, and what effect they had on their business, so that you can learn what worked and what didn't. I guess today is my friend Kristen Dionne, I've known Christina for about four years. And I've always been a little bit in awe of the business she runs. It's called accomplice content. It's based in Halifax in Canada. accomplice content creates video content for brands, everything from motion graphics, animation to audio, it's just a factory for content. It's amazing. What I didn't know about was the early days of this business with our partners, and the interesting ways in which they got their start and found their first customers. And in this episode, we talked a lot about relationships and referrals. And the idea that maybe your first 10 customers are closer than you think. Lots of us when we start out, we think of the the faceless masses of people that you could possibly serve. And yet it's often those closest to us, that can help us out the most in the early days. You could probably tell from the audio Christina is someone who makes everyone laugh when she's in the room with a great conversation, and our tips on being relatable. And being your empathetic self, when talking to customers are really, really worth noting. He talks a lot about that. And we talk a lot about the idea of rule number six. What's rule number six? Have a listen and find out. Enjoy the show. Hey there first 10 podcast listeners. I'm here today with my friend Kristen Dion. Kristin, first of all, thank you very, very, very much for taking the time to be here with us today. Do you want to tell us where you are in the world and a little bit about your business story so far, and what you're working on right now?
Kristen Dionne 02:05
Yeah, thank you for having me, Conor, I'm excited to get to chat with you. Okay, so where I am currently in the world right now is Michigan, USA. Um, but I'm a bit of a transplant from Canada. So my original home and my business are both in Halifax, Nova Scotia, on the east coast of Canada. So running currently running a business remotely from USA to Canada, which is posed its own benefits and challenges. And my business, my business is called accomplice content. And we create video content for mostly marketers. And we do everything. So we have live action. producers, directors, we have animators, we do everything from motion graphics to 3d animation. And we have a radio recording studio. So kind of like tip to tail we can call it where we're based in Nova Scotia is a small town. So we don't really have the benefit of being specialised, we thought to succeed in a space like that. We really needed to be jack of all trades. So. So that's what we did. And we are five years young, we actually just started into our sixth year of business on November 1 2020, which, I mean, I can't believe that we got there. So I mean, we'll talk about the first 10 eventually, but I mean, here we are now, unbelievable.
Conor McCarthy 03:36
still feeling that rush after six years. It's like wall still doing it still got it.
Kristen Dionne 03:41
It's totally it's like what how did we get here? People still pay us to do stuff. Okay. Like, let's, let's do it.
Conor McCarthy 03:51
Well, congratulations on reaching six years. Pretty cool.
Kristen Dionne 03:53
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
Conor McCarthy 03:55
Yeah. So go right back to the start. Tell us about those the early days, the first 10 customers days. How did you how did you find them? Yeah, you
Kristen Dionne 04:05
know, it's funny, when you asked me to be on this podcast, that was the first thing. I mean, it's the title of the podcast. So the first thing that I started thinking about was like, who are our first 10 customers? Like, I don't know. So I think this may be requires a little bit of a backtrack in the conversation because I even had some imposter syndrome when you asked me to be on this podcast because you, you pose the question as you were talking to founders. And I'm like, Well, why do you want to talk to me? I am I have started a business. So I would say by definition, I am a founder, but have never thought of myself the founder and like maybe had a little bit of shame actually around around that like feeling. And so our business started really unconventionally, me and my now business partners, I have three other business partners and a team of 14 people. Total Now, a lot of us worked together at a different company before doing a lot of the same thing. And they were really successful company. And the owners were partners in life. And they got into a bit of a public battle with a local labour union and really struggled in the courts in the court of public opinion, for a couple of years, until they just couldn't really take it anymore. So the business was successful. And they felt like it probably wasn't sellable. And they just decided to shut down. And they told a couple of us ahead of telling the rest of the staff, there was about 25 people that work there at the time, and they said, like, we're gonna shut down, like, we're not selling this, we think you guys should keep doing what we're doing like this business works, they opened up their books to us, they showed us sort of like, how it could work. And they said, like, go for it. And so that was a really stressful dislike point in my life, like I was an employee happily working, like doing work that I loved to do with people who I like doing it with in a place that I liked doing it. And I was like, the rug got, like, pulled out from under our feet. It was like, do we want to do this, like, now we have to make this choice like, like, pretty much like, now, you know, we had, I think a couple of weeks to make the choice, wow. And we all went out and did job interviews and got, you know, offer letters and other places. And we came back and spent about eight hours talking about it on my back deck and really thrashing around the idea of what it could be and what it could look like and who we wanted to take with us. And the thing that kept us that made us say yes, just like we're never going to get a shot like this, again, like those jobs that were offered to us. Like, we can go find those again, if we want to, but like this is a once once in a lifetime shot. So we did it. And we had no business doing what we were doing. We the three of three of us went out and got loans, you know, no bank wanted to give me a loan to start a business. Like I just lost my job. You know, I was like completely. I was, you know, I was young at the time. Like, I'm trying to figure out how old I am right now it seems like a bit of a blur. But I was like 29, I think like just turning just turned 30 maybe. And finally somebody convinced, we said me and my dad was on my way to help my dad going into the bank, we got that we got that loan. And we hired nine people with us out of the gate at the salary rate that they were making before and said like, you guys want to take a chance with us like this might not work. But if you want to do it, like let's do it. We had payroll to make on week two for nine people. And we had like, no receivable, like I know, I can see you holding your face like what god are you doing? So we didn't pay ourselves for a little while. That worked? Yeah, um, and honestly, long winded answer to getting to the first 10 customers. And my point is that we were already working towards our first 10 customers like our whole careers before that, to like, our phone numbers didn't change, we kept our cell phones, the company left, so we weren't competing against them in the market. When they left, they created a bit of a vacuum. And people who worked with us before, had our phone numbers and said, Are you guys still doing the things you were doing on Friday? Like, can you do this for me on Monday? And we're like, Yes, we can. So we're like working out of a library like piecing stuff together as we built it. But I think that's the maybe the maybe the idea of like, you know, climbing up a ladder, like being mindful of like the shoulders, you're you're stepping on to like to get there. But like those people wanted to work with us, because of who we had been on Friday, you know, at that other company. And so like, everything is connected. And I think like those relationships, we built those people we built whether or not we knew that they were going to be the thing that put like bread on the table for us, like two weeks down the line. Like we had been doing that before. And so I don't know, maybe the word is authenticity, or like just like being yourself, and always knowing that like the first 10 could come from anywhere and it's probably likely that they're coming. They're not coming to knock on your door out of the blue. They're people you know, they're people in your circle. They're people who have had experience with you before in some other way and are willing to try something out because they trust you.
Conor McCarthy 09:54
I love that story. My heart is still slowing
Kristen Dionne 10:00
Oh, wait, wait, can I tell you good? Can I tell you Okay, so, so the bank, they wanted a line of credit, which I don't know what banking systems are like internationally, but a line of credit, essentially, you just have to pay off the interest that you don't have to pay off the principal every year. So it's a little bit of like a more flexible loan. One line of credit, they wouldn't give me one. They said, we're gonna give you this loan as a seven term loan, but you have to start paying it off, like right away. And I was like, Alright, as like, I'm not gonna need seven years. Oh, and the banker kind of looked at me and was like, oh, okay, girl, like, okay, like, good luck. And I walked into his office with a check at the end of for the first year for the full amount remaining on my loan, and, like, handed it to him in his face. And it felt like, like a pretty woman moment for me, like, like, you were gonna commission like, big mistake, big, huge.
Conor McCarthy 10:55
Awesome. I love that. Yeah, take that. That's really cool. Okay, so, I mean, it's amazing that you had people who were in the bag ready to do business ready to get going. You just had to, not upskill but you just had to kind of reform yourselves into into the machine to, to serve them, which is really cool. Was there was there a time that you had to go out and like, I suppose cold sell?
Kristen Dionne 11:24
You know what, you know what we're not, we're not good at that. This is our pain. This is not our pain point. I think like as a business because of how we got started, because of like that unconventional way. Like we never had to go and sell ourselves out the gate, because we had such strong word of mouth, that we're kind of at that pivot point. Now. So like, here, I am a founder on your podcast, but like, what I hope to get are like, people with who can like give me advice, when they listen to this, because I think that's our I think that's our that's sort of like where we're at right now. So we're at this like, five year point where we've had like, some really small growth, you know, we started with about nine, nine or 10 people, and now we're at through, like, 13 people. So like, we've had some, like, small, small growth over five years, which has been calculated and careful. But I think if we want to make it something different, make it something bigger like that, getting into that cold call that cold selling, is really where we're going. And right now, you know, we're trying out the tools that feel kind of like low barrier, you know, like LinkedIn, you know, those kinds of like tactical things that social aspect is, is kind of helpful. But really, like, I mean, more just fumbling fumbling around. In the darkness, which I think is I think the thing I've learned is like most people, most people are just fumbling around.
Conor McCarthy 12:46
the fumble strategy is common to everything. It's a it's a time honoured strategy for doing nothing. And so Okay, so this is really interesting moments to have you on the podcast, because we all know lots of people who run successful businesses on mostly referrals. And it's, that's, that's what you want. It's great. It's word of mouth. It's free, the trust is there. And but to go from that into what else is out there, this kind of moment of growth that we've caught you at? Is, is there like, yes to fumbling forward? But are there any other any kind of strategies, or even beginnings or strategies that you've decided, this is the way we're going to go? And this is how we're going to do it?
Kristen Dionne 13:30
Yeah. So I think the way our business works, like, we have these kind of two streams, like being like a live action kind of world, which is very production based, which, you know, being in Nova Scotia, people in New York or Los Angeles, you know, Toronto, those kinds of people don't necessarily need us, because they have all of that infrastructure there and shipping us out to them doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense. Sometimes they need Halifax. And so there's sort of that area of business that we can focus on, which is when like, Halifax, in beautiful coastal town, by the ocean with white houses, when, when the physical space draws them, and we can be that those people and so like, we're working on that network of people, so connecting with people like us who are in different parts of the world, who might need something specific that we can offer. That's like one one area thing that we're focusing on. And then the other area is animation. So the pandemic showed us that animation is such a great storytelling tool, and you can do it from anywhere, which is, you know, your, your pandemic, you know, a little bit in a sense, because we had to shut down our production capacity for for a while when everybody went into lockdown, but animators could work from home and sort of like kept us afloat, really, really luckily. And so for me, that's an area of growth that I'm really pushing out into. So I want to see that expand because the talent and the skill that we have is incredible. And I think now people are seeing that they don't have to live it. These major city centres to like do great stuff in like racing a lot of transition, you know, to either accepting people working remotely or people wanting to transition to a city like Halifax that has a slower pace of life, and they can have their job in Toronto or New York or wherever that might be. And so I think like you said, referrals, but I think also like getting into networks, like in our business are people like agents, you know, who get all of that kind of like new business in and then send it out our business, there's a lot of that pitch driven business, so it's like, one off projects, then then people kind of come back to us for that. So I think that's sort of the strategy, probably, that we'll be looking at getting into next is like, collaborations with other production houses and partnerships with them, and then finding those advocates for us, like agents, or scouts, or that kind of thing, who can help at least get our foot in the door to pitch on these things. So that's, I guess, where we're headed. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan to find a new next 10. I got, yeah, exactly. The next 10 or the next 20 or 100? Yeah, I mean, I think having a plan to instead of just just try 100 things, it's like, let's, let's try two things, really a lot of thought into them. And if after a certain amount of time, they're not working well, then we can switch it up. And yeah, like that. That's a really it's a really good, as was pivotal during pandemic times to kind of go, yes, animation. That is. That's a fruitful place to be. Yeah, yeah, I really, I mean, and maybe it's selfishly, you know, like, my two business partners are physically located in Halifax where the rest of the businesses and I am here. So, like, the internet metres, I can work remotely. And so yeah, that's maybe a bit of a Next, the first 10 confession moment. Making selfish decisions.
Conor McCarthy 17:07
Did you have any kind of sales or marketing experience before going into this business?
Kristen Dionne 17:13
So a little bit, I started my like Career Career in an advertising agency. So I always work in like the accounts side of things. And so I learned a bit about strategy on that kind of thing. And was transitioning more to be in the production side, when I left Toronto moved back to Halifax and got my job at the production studio, where I became a producer, and a writer, kind of on a whim, because in a town like Halifax, people will take chances on you because there's not 20 people banging on the door for the job. So. So a lot of it has been, you know, like I, I went to, I went to university, and I took like an arts programme that was a bit of a guinea pig guinea pig programme. And then ultimately, ended up going back to college to do like a certificate programme in advertising. So I've got like, some understanding of like, you know, the basis of it, but I wouldn't call myself a marketer. It's not how I would never describe myself, I don't think I think I'm more of a creative with strong organisational skills. So I do well at the like people management, client management side of the business. And then I get to have fun and write and play and, like, do those things too, which to me is a little bit of like, what marketing is really like, Can you play in an organised fashion? And like, talk to the people you want to talk to? I mean, I'm sure I'm not doing it right all the time. But I think that's part of the like, magic of marketing, as long as you don't put your foot in your mouth like you can. You can play.
Conor McCarthy 19:02
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it is it is it can be a playful space. As far as understanding people. I'm always curious as to that that's a skill that no matter what your role, is, understanding how people's minds tick is always a useful thing to know. Are there any books or anything that have helped you understand people better?
Kristen Dionne 19:23
Oh, have helped me understand people better? That's a good question. I think I don't know about books. So I mean, you and I met through Seth Godin salt NBA coaching, and I think that experience probably more than anything has been my greatest teacher and getting to understand people, you know, like, we do a lot of work around empathy. And so you know, someone who considered myself an empathetic person, like, kind of that experience blew the lid off of For me in it, and I think empathy is a bit of a buzzword right now, to be honest with you, but I think getting to, like really understand people's motivations and like the age old question like, What's it for? Who is it for? Like, those two questions like, you can ask him about anything and kind of like, get get through an answer for it. So I think that, and then probably on a tangent because I was thinking about books earlier today was one of the books we read as part of that experience, which was the art of possibility and like, a, my, my favourite of all of the things is like rule number six, of course. So like, being a founder, finding your first 10 you've got to be able to practice rule number six. And so what is rule number six? rule number six is a great story, which I'm not going to try to paraphrase, but the gist of it is to not take yourself so goddamn seriously bleep bleep out god damn, if you want to it is in book. Like, stuff is stressful, like, finding customers is stressful. Like, all of that is true. I can like remember, forgetting a movie I watched because I was like, hoping that stuff didn't go south. And the nine people I hired would like, get to go home and tell their families that they still had jobs the next day. And like, you have to not take yourself so seriously. So that's what I that's what I try to live by. And I guess when I'm working with people trying to understand what makes them tick what they want, like, I try to act as if, like, I don't take myself so seriously. And then hopefully they don't, too, because you can't tell someone not to take themselves. Seriously, that doesn't work. It's like telling someone to calm down. I guess. Never works. Yeah.
Conor McCarthy 22:04
The opposite is a trigger word. Trigger. Yes. I love that. Yeah, the rule number six is so glad you reminded me of that as well, because it works on so many levels. Like, again, like I meet a lot of founders, etc. and their idea is really important to them, it's it means the world to them, they want to get to change their world. But if you kind of, I suppose if you bring a demand along with it, it can make the job really heavy and tough, and you just become a weight on the world almost. But there needs to be some kind of lightness in there. And the same goes all the way down to customer conversations. You know, if they're if they're supposed to they're overly salesy or overly focused, or technical or whatever, it's kind of, it's squeezing the joy. To a certain degree, there needs to be a little, little softness around, it goes a long way. You might call it a conversation. You know, it's just it really helps to be able to go, Well, just let's take a step back here. That's, you know,
Kristen Dionne 23:05
Yes, totally. And people want to know, like, people want to feel like you are listening to them. Like everybody just wants to be like, seen and heard whether they're working in a business capacity or personal capacity, you know, like, our sales are b2b. So, sometimes we have to think about, you know, that motivation versus, you know, a customer motivation. But like, there's this great, there's this great quote that I read a long time ago that I have no idea who said it, so I can't, I can't call anyone. And I can't I'm not going to get the names wrong with like, who they were even talking to. But it was like a queen. I don't know if I bet like a queen and like a Winston Churchill and somebody else, you know, there was like, a woman in a room and then like two very powerful men, and they were like having dinner at a table. And somebody asked the Queen after. Like, what did you What did you think of the two men? And she said this one man made me feel like he was the smartest man in the room. And this man made me feel like I was the smartest person. And so like people, it's like going to a wedding. Like people don't remember what they ate. People don't remember, like, they remember how they felt. At the end of it, they remember so like, how are you making people feel? And so like, rule number six doesn't mean that what you're working on doesn't matter. You know, like you could you could be working on something that could, you know, flip climate change, you could be working on something like super important. And that doesn't mean that like rule number six, like the littles that in any kind of way, but when you come into a room with the lightness, and like if you're actually enjoying it if it actually matters to you, and if you can connect with the people who like that will matter for them. That synergy just happens. And if you're forcing it, then it's not going to happen. And that's okay. Because like, the first 10 people you meet aren't going to be your first 10 customers. And that's okay. They shouldn't be because you're not for everyone. You can't be for everyone. Right? So like, that's always one of my favourite questions to ask people, when when they're building something is like, Who are you not for? Hmm. Because knowing that is just as if not more important than knowing who you are for?
Conor McCarthy 25:30
saying no, to a large chunk of the population, most of the population is is very important. As much as as much as your idea might change the world. It's like initially, it just has to change a handful of people just to get that little foothold. Yeah. The smallest viable audience is the is the way I've heard it described before. And yes, yeah. And that's a really good point that the first 10 people won't be your first 10 customers. There will be knows there will be people who just don't care, or it's just not for them. And that's totally fine.
Kristen Dionne 26:02
Don't take it. Yeah. Don't take it personally, you know, yeah. Yeah. That rejection, isn't them rejecting you, or your idea like that has? It's like that. It's not you. It's me conversation. My kids. Give me a little bit of them. And that's okay.
Conor McCarthy 26:18
Like that. Have you ever been in someone's first 10? customers?
Kristen Dionne 26:22
Good question. I, I don't know. Like, I, I, no one has ever told me like, you're my first customer. I wouldn't call myself an early adopter, necessarily. So I'm probably just just after that. My stepdaughter had a business fair with her kindergarten school, and the local youth in the community last fall, my for everything closed down. And she sold milkshakes. And I think I was one of her first investors. So that's, I think matters, maybe one of her first 10 customers, ever. And she made 100 bucks that day. So, you know, like, no checks.
Conor McCarthy 27:07
That's a story for life. You started her her business empire? And just as a last question, what would you say to someone just starting out to find their first 10?
Kristen Dionne 27:20
Oh, can you tell me how you do it? I don't know. But when you get there, my number is, um, I don't know, you know, what, I think probably the thing I said, probably the thing I said at the beginning is like, just be yourself. You know, like, I think if you believe in what you're doing, and, and you can ask people questions and like, connect with people who need what it is that you're doing. And chances are like, if you're if your product or your service is any good, like, you're probably solving a problem you had to start with. Yeah. So find, find your people who are like you who need that problem solved to and and start there, I guess. But one one step at a time.
Conor McCarthy 28:13
Love that. Not going to you're not going to get to the mountain on day one. The top of the mountain on day one. Yes. So good. So good. I love a mountain reference. In terms of, yeah, that's great. It beats an iceberg reference. You know,
Kristen Dionne 28:29
I'm so cliche Conor.
Conor McCarthy 28:32
Great visual, I love it. Listen, thank you very, very much for your time and sharing all those I've tonnes of notes here that I'll link to in the show notes. Yeah, you're very kind. And obviously I'll link to all your, to your website and to your social media stuff. Get to those customers. Really, thank you very, very much. And yes, talk to you again soon.
Kristen Dionne 28:58
Thank you, Conor. Bye,
Conor McCarthy 29:01
And that's a wrap. I really hope you enjoyed this episode, and that there was something in there that was actionable and insightful for your business. Do check out the show notes for more information on what we discussed, as well as ways to contact my guest today. Helping you identify and create those first 10 customers is what I do. So if you like what you hear on this podcast, please do get in touch at www.first10podcast.com, or on Twitter @TheFirst10Pod.