#22 - Kat Elizabeth of the Personal Branding Project
[#22] - Getting out of freelancer survival mode with Kat Elizabeth
In this episode, Kat Elizabeth tells us of her path from musical theatre through to creating and scaling her own successful freelance business. We really get into the details here, and talk about audience building, the value of marketing processes, the importance of understanding your niche deeply, and about creating reliable frameworks so you can grow your freelance business.
Key topics:
Planning, keeping that plan simple
The compounding power of good content
The importance of harmony over balance as a freelancer
Resources mentioned in this episode, suggested reading & social media handles:
If you like what you hear on this podcast, make sure and sign up to get regular updates here.
Also follow me on Twitter here
Transcription
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
clients, people, business, freelance, copywriting, guess, bit, create, email, started, copywriter, marketing, freelancer, framework, writing, podcast, thinking, mistakes, find, lead
SPEAKERS
Conor McCarthy, Kat Elizabeth
Kat Elizabeth 00:01
If I had just let some of those foundations myself in those early few years like my business would be in a totally different place right now like they're these are the old things that I'm like 2020 hindsight like those, those are the things that I would actually go back and change, quite painful to think about.
Conor McCarthy 00:22
Hello, listeners and welcome to the first 10 podcast. I'm your host Conor McCarthy. And in each episode, I interview Business Builders on their first 10 customers, where they were at they found them, how they talked to them, and what effect they had on their business, so that you can learn what worked and what didn't. When I'm not recording podcasts, I help Business Builders find their first 10 customers and grow their businesses. I do that with one to one coaching, and a series of online workshops. So please do check out my website Conor mccarthy.me. For more details and sign up to my newsletter. I hope you enjoy this show. My guest today is the wonderful cat Elizabeth cat helps stock service based freelancers and entrepreneurs become in demand brands. And it's been a really busy seven years for cash. In this episode, she tells us of her path from musical theatre through to creating and scaling her own very successful freelance business. We really get into the details here, including the mistakes that Kat made. And she shares those mistakes so you can spot them a mile off. We talk audience building, we talk the value of marketing processes, the importance of understanding your niche deeply, and of creating reliable frameworks so you can grow your freelance business. One of the biggest takeaways for me in this episode was when we talked about seeking harmony over balance as a freelancer. as a freelancer, there's often a lot to do, I need to figure out a way to do it all to be able to manage it all. But keep your sanity at the same time. Kat has a really amazing online presence across her website, her courses, Instagram, YouTube, and her work really is a must see for all freelancers, just to see what's possible. When you keep it simple. When you plan your business well. And when you go all in on knowing your audience, as a little bonus card was kind enough to share a really great resource that you can use today to help you get your first 10 customers. Please enjoy my chat with cat Elizabeth. So cat, Elizabeth, first of all, thank you very, very much for taking the time to be with us here today.
Kat Elizabeth 02:19
Oh, it's such a pleasure. Thanks for having me. Where are you calling in from so I'm on the Gold Coast in Australia right now right on the beach in Surfers Paradise. So that very like iconic beachy, touristy locate.
Conor McCarthy 02:31
That sounds rough. There's like a rough place to live. It's It's It's a tough life. Although I mean, it's pouring with rain at the moment. So it's not very beachy. But anyway.So jumping into the first 10 customers, I've been following your your podcasts and your work for a while you've had a pretty interesting few years, you want to take us back a few steps and give us the lead into how you got where you are today.
Kat Elizabeth 02:53
Yeah, sure. So I mean, like nutshell version is that I was actually a professional active first. So my I guess the first phase of my career was doing professional musical theatre and had a bit of a I call it my quarterlife crisis and ended up quitting. And starting from scratch. And as you do when you're having your like rock bottom moment, and needing to rebuild, you just kind of figure things out as you go along. And so I sort of ended up, I landed myself a job in real estate. And it sort of evolved into a bit of a marketing position, which was kind of part of what showed me that Oh, like this marketing thing could be interesting, potentially, I don't know much, but I know enough. But I was also I wrote it and produced my own cabaret show, which I ended up doing all of the marketing for as well and again, was finding that even though the acting was meant to be my thing, I became really obsessed with with marketing and branding. So a seated sort of been planted, but it was like What do I do now? And I sort of I sort of had an idea of what a copywriter was at the time like and I had a feeling if I'm going to do marketing, it's probably needs to be copywriting because I'm just a natural writer. So I ended up I started by just getting a job in an advertising agency because I thought well the easiest thing to do is just like try and get easy in my head I was like well the easiest thing to do is just get a job even though I had no real qualifications and just see if this was something I wanted to explore further and so I worked there six months figured out Yeah, no I I'm pretty good at this but I hate to the environment. I want to do this for myself. So I already had one freelance client which we'll probably talk about because that was you know, I think the first is often the one where you make the most mistakesbut I knew I had enough I guess cash coming in just from that one client that I thought okay, I can survive just and thena if I quit, well, I'm gonna have more time to land more clients. So I just made the leap and I decided to go freelance, joined a community of other copywriters and made sure okay, yeah, this copywriting like I am a copywriter because Again, I was still figuring out what they actually do. And that was where I got a lot of, I guess mentorship and started to figure out, the more the business side of things as well, which is obviously once you first become a freelancer, you realise that that is so much more challenging than being good at what you do, is actually running a business. And so I did that for I think I've officially went full time freelance about five years ago, and a couple of years ago decided my business business started evolving, because I'd been on YouTube and creating a lot of content. And I find that a lot of my clients were coming to me for more than just copywriting, that it became this natural flow on effect, I ended up doing coaching and brand strategy and ended up launching the personal branding project. So it's been a really busy kind of like, I guess, seven years of all of those kinds of things happening, but yeah, like, I guess it all led me to what I'm doing right now. And I'm really grateful for it. That is a congratulations. I mean, that's, it's a hell of a journey. And that's the nutshell version. I can imagine all the the ups and downs and the roller coaster that that's been, you mentioned, you mentioned your first client, you want to take us back there and tell us about all the gory details. Oh, boy. I mean, so this one, I was pretty lucky in that my first client was a referral from my mom, she's one of those networkers who just knows everyone, and so was like, I think I've got these people who need your help. I was like, amazing. And it started with just like, a tiny bit of a test job, just to see how things went. And I was like, Yeah, like, they seem like good people. And they asked if I would be interested in working for them one day a week. And I was like, This is incredible. Like, this is, you know, this is that I guess I was ready for that once I'd quit the advertising job. Like I was kind of just doing like little bits and pieces before then, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is the dream, like one day a week, like guaranteed money. Yay. I guess the first mistake I made was just agreeing without even thinking to work on site with them. Which I yeah, already, then I'm like, not in freelance mode. I'm like, in their tiny little office with them looking over my shoulder. And I didn't really charge them anything extra. Even though I was travelling a really long way to work in the office, like it was an hour drive each way to get to their office. So that was I guess, like rookie error number one. Rookie error number two was not really having a clear scope of work. So I just became the do everything girl, which I mean, it can be a great thing for a while to like, if you're trying to figure out what is my niche, what am I good at, you know, to like, so I was doing design, photography, copywriting, because I was I was a bit of a jack of all trades. But it just meant that that one day was so chaotic, and I never knew what I was going to be doing. And it was almost just giving me anxiety, because I felt like they needed me to achieve so much for them. But I was trying to juggle too many hats. And one of the big, I guess, errors I made that really cost me like that part of what kind of cost the relationship in the end is that I found out that I'm not good at jumping between copywriter and graphic designer. And so I was trying to like design and do the copywriting for this brochure for them and ended up sending it out like putting so much into the design because I was very focused on that and they loved the copy. But then it got to went to print with typos in it.
Kat Elizabeth 08:27
So that was a warning. Yeah, exactly. But all of these kinds of things like it's like 2020 hindsight, like I had to like, unfortunately, it was a painful mistake to make. But I now that taught me a lot about my own way of working and how I need to have processes in place. And so like the relationship with them, like it did not end well. Let's just say that there was more than one mistake made. It was all going swimmingly up until then, and they loved me and you know, like we had a good thing going on. But it was just like one too many mistakes where they just went, yeah, this isn't working anymore. And I thought they were gonna go replace me. And it turned out they never replaced me with anyone. So I think it could have actually also been budget. I blamed myself completely. But you know what it was like, I got it out of the way at least I got so many mistakes out of the way that I had a bit of more of a clean slate ready for client number two. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that isn't that's a that's a lot of mistakes in one place. But looking back, you're kind of thankful. That's what I'm sensing. It's like, Okay, that was you know, the world didn't end and I learned a lot and we moved on. Yeah, absolutely. And like, honestly, there are some mistakes that I think will just you can't skip, like, yes, we can learn from other people's mistakes, but they often don't stick until we've made them ourselves and really experienced them for ourselves. So I try not to kind of do the shoulda woulda coulda, because I just feel like you know what, it's pointless like it's done. You know, it wasn't you know, I made I walked away with my head held high and that in that I tried to do everything I could to you know, rectify the situation and show them a lot of respect. You know what I mean? It wasn't like this public humiliation, it just like it stung. It hurt my ego. A lot. Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a check in with yourself, isn't it? So, so that so so coming off the back of that, then you you started on a new path. And it sounds like part of that was deciding that. Okay, it's copywriting. I gotta I gotta let the design go even for even briefly and just double down on the copywriting? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, that was when so when that was all kind of falling apart. And I was feeling a bit like, oh, maybe I know less than I do. That is what helped me do, I was doing a lot more research around different specialties in marketing. And I'd been following someone in particular, who was a well known copywriter, and I guess copywriting coach in Australia, and I decided to join their community. And when I started sort of immersing myself in that and connecting with all of the people, and really understanding the role that a copywriter plays in someone's business and their brand, that was when I was more confident in saying, Yeah, I'm just going to give myself this title, and go all in with a copywriting. And I can save the design stuff, although, you know, the multi talented stuff, like I can use that for my own business, but I don't need to advertise that I don't need to sell that to my clients. And it just made things a lot simpler, like pricing my services and, and knowing how to market myself got so much easier with that clear focus. So that is when I just um, yeah, I spent basically then the next sort of 12 months really just building momentum as a copywriter. And just getting a tonne of experience and starting to build out some processes and really figure out the like, the nitty gritty of what it would look like to run a copywriting business, I guess, and to just gain the confidence to increase my pricing and all of them the natural things that start to happen in that sort of first 12 to 24 months as a freelancer. Okay, and did you have clients? I mean, the the business group that you became part of sounds like a really influential part of your growth as a copywriter. Did you have clients at the same time? Or did you kind of find them as you became more confident and more skilled in copywriting? Yeah, I mean, I was so lucky in that at the time that that group that I joined had a huge referral system involved where, you know, the the woman running the group actually no longer took on copywriting clients and had decided that she would use the group to send referrals to so she kind of had a system in place where you would have to put your hand up, if she would say, Oh, we've got this job. This is the description of the job. Put your you know, like kind of pitch yourself to me. And as long as you got in quick and you sort of had a pitch where she could see that you're ideally suited for the job like you you had some sort of relevant experience or reason for being qualified for that job. She would then send a couple of referrals on so she'd send one email and recommend two to three copywriters and say, Hey, I'm not I can't take this job fully booked. Here are the copywriters I recommend. After that it was handed over to you. So you kind of got the leg up in that it wasn't fully cold laid, because they'd already sort of reached out to her, but you start to win them over because they were attached to the idea of working with this very well known coffee writer and now this these like two to three random people in their inbox saying hey, pick me. Yeah, but that was because I got I guess the confidence, you have a confidence boost in that someone's vouched for you, which is amazing. Like I think that's really good when you are kind of struggling to find any sort of confidence in the early stages. But it also really showed me the importance of responding fast really knowing how to write an email that gets to the point and and connect with that person and also the power of the follow up as well because I noticed so often that I would call the like the lead within a few hours of sending my first email because I wanted to have that personal connection with them. A lot of the other copywriters hated the phone I mean I hated the phone too but I wanted to land a job so they would not call and they would just send their email and hope for the best well too late cat had already jumped in bonded with them over the phone sent a portfolio and often I was you know doing up a proposal by the end of the day and and winning out against copywriters, like some of the copywriters I would beat sound so bad beat out, but like, it was very friendly competition like we all you know, it was it was a wonderful community, but some, you know, five to 10 years experience and here I am this person in their first year winning the job, because I quickly figured out what these potential clients actually wanted and needed. So that was a huge lesson learned.
Conor McCarthy 14:50
That is brilliant, acting fast. And yeah, picking up the phone, good old fashioned, pick up the phone as soon as you can. And following up I think in a previous episode We've talked about the power of the follow up and how it's so surprising that it's not done as much as you would think. But it's incredibly powerful.
Kat Elizabeth 15:00
Yeah, we think I think we just get in our heads a lot. And we think we assume if it's silence, then they've rejected us, because our fragile egos just, you know, we start thinking, worst case scenario. But the fact is, usually, and I now have experienced this so much more being on the other side of things like I'm now that annoying potential client who will just ghost you because she gets too busy. I now see that we people genuinely forget, they're absolutely flat out, they have so much going on, you know, their inbox is overflowing. Usually, I would find that people would thank me for following up and nudging them because like, oh, my goodness, I'm so sorry, I let this slip through the cracks. So again, that's something where like, just like if I didn't pick up the phone, I might not have made that connection. If I didn't follow up, they may have completely forgotten about me. And it's not that they'd gone to somebody else. So um, yeah, I think we get over ourselves and our egos sometimes and just like, do those things like what's the worst that can happen? If you send a follow up email?
Conor McCarthy 16:04
Exactly, yeah. Yeah, there's a there's a guy called Derek Severs, who I'm a big fan of, and he used to work he Oh, he created and sold a company called CD Baby. Years and years ago, and going to retired and but he's a musician at heart. And he wrote a book recently called your music and people and he tells a story about a friend of his who's in the music business. And she said, You know, when bands get in touch with her, it's and send her an email saying, Oh, you know, will you represent us? Or will you play our stuff or whatever, she doesn't respond, she puts it into an inbox or she labels it. And then when they get in touch again, she doesn't respond to that, like she knows they're coming in, but she just puts it into another inbox. And after the third time, then she responds. And it's her kind of filter to kind of say, well, this person is into it enough for they'll follow up and they have the kind of the confidence or that the process to kind of go, No, it's on me to do the work. So I need to just do the work. I said, it's a good signal for someone who understands how that how that game is played, if that makes sense. So lately, I love that that is so cool. And actually in the follow up again, because this is this whole season is for freelancers. And I have I've been in the situation of sending follow ups and not any follow ups. And like, Is there any tips or advice you would give on? On the follow up on the first follow up? Or even the second follow up? How would you structure that message? Instead of let's get it out of the way instead of the usual? Oh, just wanted to flag this email with you again?
Kat Elizabeth 17:35
Yeah, I mean, I think it does depend a little bit on the rapport that you have built. Like, if you, you did actually have that phone conversation, like I would probably be a little bit more personal and conversational. Whereas like, I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with just being really shortened to the point of the whole, making sure you receive this. But I would kind of add to that of like, Is there anything I can do to make this easier? Like, for instance, if if you've asked them to answer a whole bunch of questions in that first email, or fill out a briefing form, and they haven't done it, you could always say, you know, he's filling out a form a bit too much right now, would you rather we do it over the phone, you know, I can ask you the questions over the phone, you know, just just see if is are you think there's anything that might be a point of resistance for them getting back to you. But again, like a lot of my follow ups were just, I mean, usually it was after I'd already spoken to them. And I was like, hey, love chatting to you the other day, wanted to make sure that you do actually get this or if there's anything I can do to you know, to make the process easier. And that's that, and it's the same, like, if it was a follow up for a proposal, I'd normally just give it a fair amount of time, like, I'd make sure I've given them at least, you know, probably two business days before saying anything, just knowing that, you know, if you do a day later, you could smell a little desperate. And just check in with them. And again, offer to hop on a phone call or something, you know, if you have any questions, you know, if it's something about budget, like let's chat it out, I'd love to hear your thoughts, you know, just kind of keeping it friendly and letting them know, this isn't like a closed deal where you have to have a yes or no, you know, maybe they're just like struggling to know what to say because they're a bit thrown by the price. And you can say, you know, it's always a room for us to change the scope of the project, or, you know, and I do offer payment plans or, you know, I just find that you've got your sort of go to list of things and use a little bit of empathy and understanding of where the relationship is currently at, to kind of think about what probably needs to come you know, to come next. I try not to ever use like copy and paste type vibe. Like I tend even though it's good to have some guidelines for yourself. I just don't like sending that that copy and paste type email because I just think it looks a bit gross. And Come on, like you have time to write a two minute email. But yeah.
Conor McCarthy 19:44
Especially with your first client. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's so important. Taking 30 seconds to your points to kind of assume positive intent, almost. Like there's probably a good reason that they didn't respond or maybe you caught it to spam or whatever. That it's like okay, you know how Would I like to be contacted in this way, you know, put yourself in their shoes, and kind of just imagine yourself being too busy or something else is happening where they just didn't get back to you for the right reasons. It's not that they hate you, because they don't even know you yet.
Kat Elizabeth 20:18
You mentioned earlier about writing clear and compelling. I mean, clear, compelling copies is what you do. And very early on, I mean, that's something you're trained in, I guess. And it's something that I find fascinating, to be honest, just being able to write, whether it's a landing page, whether it's an email, an entire website, are there any tips you give about writing copy? To keep it as simple as possible? Yeah, I mean, one, something that can be really handy before you write anything. So like, let's say, it's whether it's a personal email, a marketing email, a website page of social media post, is just ask yourself a couple of questions and just say, okay, after reading this, what are during, you know, during the process, what do I want the reader to know, feel? And do? And it just gives you this very clear roadmap of what actually should be included? and what doesn't need to be included? So that to the know is like, Okay, what information do I actually need to get across to them, they really, really, really important stuff. Sometimes it might be one thing, sometimes it might be a lot, depending on what you're writing, the feel is like, what is the tone that I'm going for? Do I want them to feel inspired? Or just, you know, impressed? Or, you know, like, relieved, you know, because often we're trying to sort of like, we're trying to change their state of being in some way, even if it's really small. And then the do is what is the what is the call to action at the end of this. And so if it's a direct, direct email that you're sending to a potential client than the do is going to be pretty clear. Like, do you want them to look at your portfolio? Or do you want them to fill out a briefing form? Or do you want them to book a time to speak with you. But if it's obviously if it's social media, or if it's a marketing email, it might be something different, but I find that that just keeps the fluff out. Whereas if you just sit down and just start writing without those questions answered that where we can get very long winded and not really know where we're taking the message, Hmm, I often think I read I've, again, I've done this myself, and I see it a mile off, when I get what I read copy, that doesn't, that doesn't help me commit to making a decision or taking a course of action. And it's, it's not very generous to the person, when you're kind of left hanging, I guess, like, to your point, like when you know, but at the end of something you've read, okay, I know, I know what this is, I'm feeling a certain way about it. And I know what to do next. It's like, that's kind of grace. So you're doing a service to the reader by being super clear about those things. I think that's really, that's a really interesting way to think about it. No feel do. Yeah. And then you could I mean, there's always that step further, as well as like, future pacing to is like, Okay, is there anything, I can let them know about what comes next, just so they can be prepared for that next step, which can be really happy with that client relationship pace, because you know, if you're saying to them, okay, so once you fill out the briefing form, I'm going to do this, then we're going to do this, and this is how we're going to achieve this. You know, it's it's giving them a little bit of clarity around the process, but it also puts them future pacing as a copywriting tool, as well, helps your client already imagine themselves having done something, or having already worked with you, you know, so you know, you could you can be referencing, like once you've done this, and we'll be able to do our kickoff call and talk about your goals. And, you know, you can kind of get them excited about what's on the other side of them agreeing to work with you as well. So that's kind of like a bonus add on, I guess. Oh, yeah, like that, take them by the hand a little bit.
Conor McCarthy 23:49
I hope you are enjoying this episode and that there’s some actionable and insightful advice that you can take to your business. Helping you identify and create those First 10 Customers is what I do, so if you like what you hear on this podcast and want more information, including a bunch of free resources on how to find your first customers and grow your business, check out first10podcast.com or find me on Twitter @TheFirst10Pod. Also, podcast reviews are more valuable than you would realize, and I’d really appreciate if you could take 2 minutes to jump on iTunes and leave a review of the First 10 podcast. Thanks. There's you mentioned earlier that you know running a business is obviously different from being a copywriter or you know, running one of your workshops. What if you had a bit of a kind of a boom moment, I guess when you maybe realise that what does it mean to run a business?
Kat Elizabeth 24:48
Oh my goodness. I think because I spent so I spent way too long in what I call Freelancer mode, which is for me is about revival, it's always just about where's the next client coming from? All you think about is just making that one client happy, getting paid, maybe getting a testimonial, but you're not thinking about growth, you're not thinking about the future, it's very day to day. Whereas running a business means you see that it's there's a bigger picture plan in place, you're able to actually set goals for the future, you're able to look for ways to improve your processes and even see that maybe there is room for growth, maybe you don't have to be the person always do it. Like maybe, you know, you won't always be the freelancer doing all the work, what if there is a way of eventually outsourcing some elements of your process or, or growing a team and I know that kind of goes beyond freelance mode, but it's not about even doing it right now. But it's seeing that it's possible. And so when I was in Freelancer mode, I would always do a budget based on my survival needs. So I would just figure out what are my expenses for the month? This is how many clients I need to get to cover those expenses. Whereas with a business, I'm going okay, what do I want to achieve this year? You know, what am I and then I'm also looking ahead, what am like potential business expenses, and, you know, what is what is it? What's the savings I want to have? How do I break it down by quarter? And what are some creative ways I can achieve these goals beyond just, you know, one client after another client, like there's some other offers, I could introduce, planning ahead for promotions, so many different things. But essentially, I guess it's about actually planning and dreaming and building for the future, as opposed to just staying stuck in the now and and living kind of Groundhog Day, every day.
Conor McCarthy 26:39
Yeah, yeah, I wrote a post that I recently gave it the freelance roller coaster of feast and famine, where you work, work, work to get clients, and then you start to do the client work and you you stop, advertise, you stop running your business, you stop marketing, you stop selling, you do something, all that, and then the end of the client work comes and you're back at square one, and it's stop, start, stop start. And it is exhausting. So I think, yeah, to your point, like, I suppose, thinking more broadly, and coaching your work in a business context? What is the business need to do to keep running smoothly? Yeah, for sure. And seeing that, you know, yes, you're one part of your business, I mean, we're also you're going to be saying that you have different roles that you're going to be playing and that you can actually change hats, you don't always have to be seeing yourself as Oh, I'm just the person that does the work for the clients. But seeing that, you know, by building out structures and systems for yourself, underneath what you do, you can actually make everything run a whole lot smoother. You know, and I'm talking systems for, you know, your clients and the workflows and the actual process of working with them, but also building systems for your marketing and things that are, you know, so they can keep chugging along while you're doing that client work. If I had just laid some of those foundations, myself, in those early few years, like my business would be in a totally different place. Right now. Like they're these are the old things that I'm like 2020 hindsight like those those actually go back and change. So would you say, a marketing system? Like just Can you give one example of even a part of your marketing system? Yeah, sure. So, for instance, having a really clear idea of, okay, where are your lead sources? And what is the kind of how are you going to make sure that you actually get found? And then I mean, for me, I kind of call it my my profit prescription. So it's like, how do people find you? What is the next step that you want them to take? And can we automate that? How are you going to nurture the relationship? And then and how are you going to kind of pitch your services and sell to them. And there's an extra step, which is like what happens afterwards, as in how you're going to make sure you get that social proof that testimonial. Actually, just mapping those things out. It's not that you have to automate everything, and it becomes this very mechanical process. But it allows us to have a bit of focus on knowing Okay, well, then each month, I'm just going to create this many pieces of content and put them out there. And, for instance, if you're using SEO, you know that the work that you do now could be paying off in in years to come. So it's not that kind of thing starts to become automated. And if you have a system set up where you know, people sign up for your lead magnet, or a price list or absolutely anything. And then you know, they get shown to a thank you page where you've recorded this lovely little video introducing yourself and thanking them. And then they get sent a couple of emails introducing you like all on on autopilot, you've already nurtured the relationship and they're more ready to hop on a call with you or to fill out an application form. So it's just looking for making sure connecting the dots, I guess, from when people are first going to discover you through to working with you and making sure that you're intentional about all of that and not just going oh, I don't know, people just like stumble across me or I guess sometimes I go to networking events and that can lead to something like we want to make sure that we're clear on like, Where are the best places for you to generate those leads? And how are you going to really nurture the relationship? Yeah, I love that there is a there is a hopeful freelancer, I guess is what you might call defy. It's like, I can do the work. And I'm just gonna wait for people to come along and hire me to do the work. But it unfortunately doesn't work that way. And everything you've I was just nodding along everything you said there is is is so true having an A system, it did sound like capitalist system, but it just means something that you do regularly, that overtime compounds. And yeah, I love I love what you mentioned about like, finding your leads, nurturing them, just taking people through a process so that if they are potentially in the market for what you do, that you're always again, it's like follow up, you're always being in touch with them, you're always having a touch point. So that when the time comes when they're ready to make a decision, it's like you're the you're the obvious answer in a way. Yeah, exactly. So you run workshops, and you help people do this, you want to talk a little bit about your workshops and your and the communities that you're a part of, because you've got so much from communities in the past. I listen to your podcast a lot. You mentioned that. And then you started your own Twitter, tell us about what it's like to start and run those communities. Yeah, sure. I mean, there is a lot of trial and error, I will say that I spent a good 18 months, creating offers creating courses and communities throwing a lot of spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. And I would I mean, I now help people make sure like not take as long and not be as messy about it as I am. I think there's still an element of time and experimentation that that you need to go through. But I think for someone who I guess the first thing I'll say,
Kat Elizabeth 31:52
if you've been a service provider for a while, if you really have found your niche, if you really know your audience, it is that is when you should be thinking about potentially doing you're going beyond that as in the one to many kind of offer, I think a lot of people try and jump straight to it before they even have that experience before they've worked with their first 10 clients. And they get sorely disappointed because it takes a lot of work to create that stuff. But you don't have a built in audience and you don't even necessarily know what your audience needs from you. So that was something that I learned the hard way is that I'd created a couple of courses before really sort of establishing myself in a particular industry, doing a lot of market research, I just had this idea created the thing. And there's just so much that would go back and do differently, not necessarily change the product, but I may not have even created like it wasn't even the thing that I wanted to do. So yeah, so definitely make sure that you have a niche that you love, you have something that you're very knowledgeable in and you know that your audience is wanting something more from you. You know, it's kind of the easiest, you know, easy in inverted commas, the easiest way to do that kind of thing. But then the other thing I would say is really focused on creating some sort of framework for yourself that is repeatable. So really trying to break down like what is it that I do for people is like, what is the thing that happens time and time again, to help me guarantee their results? Once you can sort of create a framework, like it might be something that you do yourself? So you have a framework that you follow, like your own process? Do you help people, you know, create a website strategy, for instance. But there's a good chance that you could break that framework down and then teach it so that people then can follow it to create their own website, once you have that kind of framework in place like that is something that you can get known for very easily. Like it's one of those things that you can talk about all the time, you can refer to it in social media posts, you know, you can break it down into smaller chunks, maybe you do a workshop just on one piece of your framework, or maybe you give that overarching view of your whole framework, you know, in one of those workshops, and then people go, Well, there's a lot to this, and they decided to just pay you to build the website instead. But I think having that framework just makes life so much easier. Like I've created so many courses before the framework, and then ended up making a better framework and having to go and update the course to make sure it was sturdier, if that makes sense. Yes, so yeah, these are very technical pieces of advice, I guess. But like, honestly, they're the things that I wish I knew when I was first starting out and doing that kind of thing. But that must be been half the value or you know of joining one of your courses where it's like you have learned so much because to your point like you've made all the mistakes that you've made, you know, you've learned the hard way but that means that the learning is deeply imprinted, I guess you know, you know what to do and you're more than willing to share and to help others to do what they want to do. Oh for for sure. Like my driving force is just like helping you do it quicker and easier. At least, simpler, quicker and I should say it is never easy, you know, the work is always hard. But when we over complicate it, that is when all the like the anxiety, the stress, the overwhelm the wanting to give up kicks in. Whereas if we, if we've got a plan, and it's simple, even if it's gonna be hard work, generally, at least we know what we're doing, we do wake up, and we follow the plan, and we just keep going. And eventually you get those results. So my whole thing is like, Okay, I'm just going to create plans, I'm going to systematise things and simplify things and hand it over to everyone else. And, and just, I love it when I get to see other people see the results faster than I did? Because I know it's possible. It didn't have to be as slow painful as I made it for. How do you how do you balance everything in your freelance life? Oh, my goodness, I mean, balances easier when you have those systems in place. Like I mean, the whole balance thing, I think, I've always been like, it's about balance, it's harmony, I don't think there is such thing as his balance. It's really understanding, what are your priorities? And this is, again, where the business piece comes in, if you actually clear on what are the goals that I have for my business? Okay, so then therefore, what do I need to do in order to achieve those goals, like if you know how many clients you actually need to land every single month to hit your financial goals, if you know how many leads it takes to get those clients to actually work with you, then it simplifies what you need to achieve. So I think it's it's really that clarity piece of knowing what am I trying to achieve? Okay, and what's the action plan to get there? And knowing Okay, so what's most important to me as well, like, for instance, like, I'm the kind of person if I don't make time for self care, like, I won't do self care. So in is the part of the plan, like it needs to be in my calendar as one of the things that I do in a day, or I won't take it seriously. So I think you do need to have that clarity and but also take accountability, like, take responsibility for what your day and your week looks like, you know, if you let your clients become, you know, 20 hour day a day commitments, like I mean, there were times where I was working, you know, 1214 hour days, six, seven days a week for a while there, because I said yes to everything, you know, but that was my choice. And I, you know, I could get all pull me but like, I agreed to that. I said yes. And I said I would start at this date, and then I went and booked someone else and started that date. And, you know, my choices ended up meaning that my life got completely out of balance. Whereas now, you know, I have a bit more clarity around Okay, what do I like? What are the clients I need? How long are they going to take to look after as well? Like, you need to know how long it takes you to actually serve a client from start to finish like don't think it's just the writing design. You know, yeah. Plan your week on based on like 40 billable hours, you know, read already your your, you know, your starting behind, like we need to be realistic about what are the other things involved in your day besides actually just doing the work for your clients? And all these little things are what add up to you sort of having a life and business with that. That harmony or that that balance? That's great. I like that. Yeah, balances, maybe balance in a way suggests kind of teetering. Maybe isn't the best thing to do. Is it unsteadiness to allow harmonies? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, harmony is much better. I'm gonna steal that and use that. And just remember, we talk about books. Are there any books that have really influenced you? I mean, I usually ask, you know, are there any marketing books, but in general, any books that springs to mind that have influenced you on your on your journey? Yeah, a few. One of the, okay, there's probably three big ones. The big leap by gay Hendricks is like my, my yearly reread, because that really just helped me. He talks a lot about upper limit problems and how we kind of sabotage ourselves because we're always waiting for something to go wrong. And so that was a big like, oh, okay, I see where I'm doing that. Another one was crushing it by Gary Vaynerchuk. And that was simply because that was what made me realise, oh, I need to build a personal brand I need I need a platform of my art. And that's the reason I launched my youtube channel over three years ago. And that really was what led me to the brand that I have now, like if I hadn't gotten on YouTube, probably none of this would have happened the way it did. And the final one is atomic habits. As far as I know, there's slight edge, I always get the two mixed up. I love them both. The slight edge kind of just, I don't know, there was something about it that just resonated even more than atomic habits. But both like they go hand in hand, so probably just read them both. But yeah, the slight edge about the power of compound interest and that 1% work that in time leads to huge results like I my business is a result of 1% work like my the big milestones and the big launches like it's it's never been about that. It's just been the little things that I've done even it's so funny because I'm not always consistent. But like, I always get back to it, you know what I mean? If I take a big break from YouTube, I'm like, you know, but I get back there. And I'd still done, you know, planted enough seeds that, you know, I still have people, you know, signing up for my email list while I'm sleeping, you know, because of a video I created three years ago. So it's really keeping that in mind is like, it doesn't feel like a big thing while you're doing it. But eventually, there'll be enough of those things that you've done that you'll have some amazing results. Fantastic. Yeah, the slight edge is it's a phenomenal book. I feel like it's becoming it's coming into the, into the culture a bit more. I've read it twice now. I read it pretty much as soon as I finished it the first time I read it, because yeah, the idea of compound interest of something compounding is I get it but after that book, I was like, Oh, right. Now I understand it. Now. It's it makes sense. And it is it's fascinating. It's And to your point, you know, making a video that you made years ago you forgotten about still gets you signups it's a great example of, of compound interest on something you create. Yeah, for sure. And I talk about this in personal branding a lot like the power of repetition, the more you just talk about the same subject over and over again, like, eventually, people are going to just know you as that go to expert just because you've talked about it enough. You know, it sounds so simple, but like, it actually is like, if you look up personal branding, like I, I pop up a lot, you know, and if you search my name, you'll see like most of podcast interviews I, you know, I'm on like, usually involve, you know, my framework or something very closely related to, you know, like, my kind of core personal branding sort of strategy. And, you know, in the moment it can feel at home, like, Oh, I'm being so repetitive, like, you know, there's always that a lot of my clients, like, I keep saying the same things like, don't I need fresh content? I was like, Yes, and no, we really do need to pick out things that we're going to become known for and make sure that we talk about them constantly. And again, like once saying your story once, you know, being on one podcast interview probably won't change your life. But when you get to 1020 100 times of any of those things, that is when you're like, oh, wow, things are so much easier than they used to be.
Conor McCarthy 42:13
That's really that's maybe an underappreciated piece of advice for freelancers. Yeah, it doesn't, everything doesn't have to be new and cutting edge. And you know, very often moments like, in a way, telling your story again, and again, helps people understand really what you do, because it's like the emails were talking about earlier. People need to hear things a few times each year. It was good, follow up. It's good. It's all good. Follow up.
Kat Elizabeth 42:42
I've got one last question. But before I ask that, you, I really want to help my listener, point my listeners towards all the things you do, because you do so much. And it's all kind of amazing. And just tell us a bit about the different places people can find you. Yeah, I mean, I keep it pretty simple. If you go to personal branding, projects.co. Basically, everything you need, you'll find there. But you can also go directly find me on Instagram, which is kind of my main platform to hang out on. And Mitel at I am a cat, Elizabeth. But again, all the links are on my website. So if you if you want something just go there, if in doubt.
Conor McCarthy 43:22
Okay, cool. And yes, I do highly recommend that all freelancers out there, check out cat stuff. It's brilliant. I'm a huge fan of your podcast genuine. I'm always taking notes. That was a sign of a good podcast was like, stop taking no stop taking note. Oh, yeah, that is a very high compliment. Thank you. So the last question I usually ask my guests is what practical advice would you give to someone starting out to find their first 10 customers?
Kat Elizabeth 43:49
Keep it simple. Stop looking for all of these, like fancy magic marketing and branding and sales strategies. And just go back to basics. What does your client need? Like? What are they struggling with? How can you help them? And how can you make that entire process just as easy as possible? That is kind of weird. Like, honestly, I gave you the the resource like I did not have a website for my first 12 months as a copywriter. And I was booked out. And like, Yes, I had that advantage. Like I was in a group with I was getting referrals, which is great. But I still had to win those referrals against people without, you know, without a web, I didn't have the website, they had websites, they were on social media, I was doing nothing. But I was like, You know what, I'm going to get testimonials. I'm going to put together a portfolio of my work. And I'm just going to get straight to the point I was gonna send them the email, I'm going to call them and we're going to do this as quickly as possible because that's what they want. They want the copywriting as quickly as possible and done well. And that was my entire focus for the first 12 months. So I would say if you're in that stage of needing your first 10 clients, just the simpler, the better.
Conor McCarthy 45:00
Yeah, God, I love that. Okay, there's so many good quotes from this episode that we're going to be able to use cat. Thank you so, so much for your time and all your wisdom, all the notes I've been scribbling down, and I'm gonna include everything in the show notes, of course. And yeah, I highly encourage everyone to check you out online and find you and look, check out your podcasts, etc. It's all brilliant stuff. Thank you very, very much for taking the time to be with us here today. Thanks for having me.
Conor McCarthy 45:10
That's a wrap. I hope you enjoyed this episode and that there was something in there that was actionable and insightful for your business. Do check out the show notes for more information on what we discussed, as well as ways to contact my guest. And it would really make by year if you could help me grow the podcast by leaving a rating or even a review. Helping you identify and create those first 10 customers is what I do. So if you like what you hear on this podcast and want more information, including a bunch of free resources on how to find your first customers and grow your business, do check out www.first10podcast.com, or find me on Twitter @TheFirst10Pod.