#23 - Scott Perry of Creative On Purpose
[#23] - Stoicism and adventures in freelancing with Scott Perry
Scott Perry is Creative on Purpose's Chief Difference-Maker and author of the Amazon top-sellers Endeavor and Onward. Scott is also the head coach for Seth Godin's Creative and Freelancer Workshops.
Scott has mentored and guided thousands of freelancers in helping them deliver work that is aligned with who they are and their key strengths, enhancing their own lives as well as the lives of others. In this episode, Scott shares with Conor his personal freelancing journey along with the key lessons he has learned throughout the adventure. Key points covered in the episode include;
Scott’s freelancing journey from inception to now.
The importance of doing work that fulfils and fuels you, rather than depletes and exhausts you.
Freelancing joys, fraught and frustration.
Good habits & intentions for freelancers to set in place.
The importance of relationships especially when working independently.
How Creative on Purpose came to light and scoring the first, not 10 but 11 clients.
Defining your endeavour and finding your audience.
The practice of stoicism – navigating and thriving through adverse & difficult experiences.
Mistakes freelancers can make at the beginning and throughout their journey.
Scott is a husband and father, goes for a cemetery run every day, and quotes Marcus Aurelius more often than he should. For over thirty years, Scott has found and spread joy as a professional musician and guitar teacher while maintaining a happy marriage, home-schooling his sons, and paying the bills. The process Scott developed and employs is time tested and scientifically vetted.
Connect with Scott Perry:
http://www.creativeonpurpose.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/in/creativeonpurpose/
Connect with First 10 Podcast host Conor McCarthy:
http://twitter.com/TheFirst10Pod
http://www.linkedin.com/in/comccart/
Resources:
http://www.akimbo.com/workshops
Book recommendations:
‘Endeavour’, ‘Onward’ and ‘The Stoic Creative’ by Scott Perry
http://creativeonpurpose.mykajabi.com/book-store
‘A Guide to the Good Life’ by William B. Irvine
http://www.williambirvine.com/books
‘How to think like a Roman Emperor’ by Donald Robertson
http://donaldrobertson.name/how-to-think-like-a-roman-emperor-the-stoic-philosophy-of-marcus-aurelius/
Transcription
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, freelancers, work, stoicism, freelancing, endeavour, freelancer, podcast, book, life, creative, coach, workshop, stoic, philosophy, routines, scott, relationships, built, clients
SPEAKERS
Conor McCarthy, Scott Perry
Scott Perry 00:01
That's how the coaching practice which has blossomed into a community and continues to turn out handbooks and all sorts of other content. That's how creative on purpose became a viable and sustainable enterprise by literally employing this principle of first 10.
Conor McCarthy 00:21
Hello, listeners, and welcome to the first 10 podcast. I'm your host Conor McCarthy. Allen each episode, I interview Business Builders on their first 10 customers, who they were, how they found them, how they talked to them, or what effect they had on their customers so that you can learn what worked and what didn't work. When Im not recording podcasts, I help Business Builders find their first 10 customers and grow their businesses. I do that through one to one coaching, and a series of online workshops. So please do check out my website Conor mccarthy.me. For more details and to sign up to my regular newsletter. I hope you enjoy the show. My guest today is the prolific Scott Perry. Scott and I have been friends for a few years now. And he really is a true difference maker who believes that excellence is cultivated through work that enhances the lives of others. I see him living this every single day. And we follow him on LinkedIn. You can see him there regularly posting something insightful. I see his work firsthand where he's helped so many people discover, develop and deliver work that aligns with who they are. A leverage is what they're good at all in the service of enhancing people's lives. It really does amazing work. One of the most interesting things about Scott for this season of the first 10 podcast is that he is the head coach on the akimbo freelancers workshop. So for the past few years, he's had a bird's eye view of the journey of 1000s of freelancers, and share some of what he's picked up from that experience along the way. In this episode, Scott also shares the hard won lessons he picked up along his own Freelancer journey, we hear about the various paths that he chased, that really helped to shape his Freelancer worldview, his approach to routines and relationships, and the very large role that stoicism plays in his life. On top of all of this, Scott is also an author on occluded his books onward and endeavour in the show notes. So coach, musician, teacher, dad, sculptors at all, and he tells him with a huge amount of generosity. For this interview, Scott also suggested that people check out his Amazon sales page for his book, The stoic, creative. This was the page he used to pre sell the first 10 copies of his book was the strategy he's employed for every handbook since please enjoy my chat with Scott Perry. So Scott Perry, thank you very, very much for taking the time to be with us here today.
Scott Perry 02:39
Conor McCarthy. Every moment I get to spend with you is a delight. And I am thrilled, honoured and so pleased to be having this conversation with you. Thank you. Yes, like a couple of akimbo coach brothers coming back together again.
Conor McCarthy 02:52
So the theme of this whole podcast is first 10 customers and you've been a freelancer this season is all about freelancers. You've been freelancing for quite a while, want to take us back a little bit and talk about your your particular freelance career.
Scott Perry 03:06
Sure. Well, I've been a freelancer almost the entire my entire adult working life. I was a school teacher for a minute after I graduated from college, bounced around doing just a couple other things and became a full time professional musician, which is as freelancers you can get, you know, around the age of 29. So, you know, your viewers can't or listeners can't see me, but am a vintage human being been around a little while. So you know, for like 30 for 30 of my 35 years of working life I've been I've been freelancer. Awesome. I do. I mean, you do so many things. And I really hope we get to talk about some of them here today. One of the roles you've had most recently and it's where I'd know you best is as head coach in the freelancers workshop, hosted by akimbo How has your experience been with with I suppose, being a student in the freelancers workshop and then being head coach? Yeah, freelancers, I never got the chance to experience as a student it because I was already on the coach team when freelancers may have been the very, maybe the second akimbo workshop to get put into play. And so I've coached or head coached and in all of them, we're getting ready to launch freelancers, five now that's incredible. And you know, it's one of my the two primary workshops I head coach in are the creatives workshop, the freelancers workshop and I could not be luckier to have those two because that that's my life. You know, a creative Freelancer musician for a long time and now coach and community organiser creative on purpose and the freelancer Life is exciting, and it's fun, and it's fulfilling and it's rewarding, and it's fraught, and frustrating. And, you know, just the whole idea of, I'm only making a living when I have a gig. And, you know, the urgency and the pressure to keep worst, you know, get working, stay work and keep working, brings with it. it's just, I mean, I could talk freelancing all day, and the people that are coming into that workshop, mean, I see myself in every single one of them, because I had definitely been there where, and especially these last couple of sessions during the pandemic, that's been a real stressor for freelancing, and it's also brought way more freelancers into the world, right, because there was, you know, if you're out of work, you know, and you're at home, but the only thing you can do is figure out how to take whatever skills you have hard or soft and and turn them into a freelancing career. So it's, we live in really interesting times for freelancers, we live in times that appear to be fraught, but there's always silver linings. And there is so much opportunity in the freelancing world right now. And we get to unpack all that in the workshop. Yeah, I totally agree with everything you say. There is been such waves in the world, obviously, but that has uncovered all kinds of new opportunities. You mentioned a moment ago about the kind of the broadness, you know, I mean, being a freelancer, that's, that's part of it. How did you learn to surf that I feel like one of the things about You know, it wasn't the end of the world. It's just like, this is just the thing. And now I'm gonna work this thing, and I'm gonna get through it, because the only way out is through, and then I'm going to move on. And there'll be another thing at some point, but you know, first I'm gonna get through this thing. So yeah, non attachment, mindfulness, presence, intention, integrity. You know, these are these are the way that most of the flourishing freelancers I know get through every single day.
Conor McCarthy 09:28
That's so interesting. Thanks for that. I mean, could delve into anything you said just there. I think one of the interesting things that I've noticed and you're correct in, in successful freelancers is that freelancing has uncovered a way of being for them. It's become their own kind of philosophy in a way, because you do need those things like you do need some mindfulness, you need good habits and routines. On the habits piece. Do you have any good habits that you've created and kept going over the years that you feel have helped you?
Scott Perry 09:59
Yeah, I think One of the things that we've noticed in the freelancers workshop is it was until the creatives workshop came along the most engaged workshop of any. And so you know, at that time we had the marketing seminar and the bootstrappers workshop and story skills and podcast fellowship and, and reshot, who is the chief learning officer Kimbo and I will talk about this and we what we arrived at is like, if you're a freelancer, you know, you're a freelancer. And if you're a freelancer, you know how to manage a schedule, you know, how to, you know, manage your day to day, you know, how to take care of your schedule, maintain a schedule, and make me keep track of your time. And that has led me to really lean into helping people with routines and relationships, because those are the things that have helped me stay on, you know, get on track, stay on track, and make forward progress in all of my freelancing endeavours. So, just a couple that leap to mind in my day to day, you know, I kind of periodically throughout any year we'll think about my vision, you know, my vision is a world where everyone on the planet who wants to, can be engaged in an endeavour that is fulfilling and prosperous human beings derive meaning and, and, or forge meaning and build identity through the work they do. So why not do work that fills you and fuels you rather than deplete you and exhaust you. So knowing what my vision is, my mission at any given point is how can I at scale at the, at any scale that I can get to help more people identify, develop and deliver an endeavour that makes a difference, something that enhances the lives of others, which will also elevate their own lives. And then every single day, I write a list of the things that I need to do. So that list is pretty small to begin with, because I'm not one of those people, I like wake up, brush, my teeth have dinner, you know, those things are gonna happen, they don't need to be on my to do list. So my to do list has maybe five, sometimes 10 things on it, that I could invest my time in. And then I look through that list, and I just asked myself, which of these things, if I accomplished it today would move me in my endeavour, the furthest and the fastest in my mission toward the vision that I have. And that's the thing I do. And that gets done before anything else gets done. And if I get that done, and I want to take some time off, or I want to move on to the next thing I can, but that kind of intentional action every single day. So that's a routine that I've developed that's really helped. And then the other is relationships.
Scott Perry 13:08
you know, Never before have we had so much control over who we spend time with, and who you spend time with says a lot about who you are. And it also says a lot about your potential. Because if you're surrounded by people that are holding you back, or, you know, naysayers, or you know, just negative people, you're, it's gonna be very difficult for you to make forward progress in your endeavour. And so it's just a matter of, you know, I must on on a regular basis, kind of take an inventory of where I'm spending my valuable time and attention. And then I thoughtfully and deliberately and with as much focus, boldness and discipline as I can make sure that I am craft cultivating relationships that enhance my life, where I'm also able to deliver value. And where there is a mutual virtuous cycle of helping each other step into our potential and make the difference that we're trying to make the world because that's how the world becomes a better place. Good people doing good work within for people they care about, and continuing to let that kind of thing ripple out. So just paying attention to routines and relationships as a starter but then having some sort of strategy for how do you check in and and tweak those things because they will need to be tweaked. And by no means my saying ditch all your loser friends and you know, cut yourself off from family members that are you know, a pain in the butt. It's just just decide how much you know how much of your valuable energy and time and attention Are you going to spend with people that maybe you have to spend some time with. But most of us most Most of the time have a lot of control over where we invest our time and attention and who we allow in and who we keep at arm's length.
Conor McCarthy 15:09
I love that that's really, the simplicity of that routines and relationships is just great. It's a sticky concept, if you like, the the relationships thing, I think is fascinating. There's, you often hear of people who are successful in whatever domain to whatever degree. And usually their story involves a lot of people, it's not the piece of work they did, or the document they created, or the website, they built, whatever it's like, and then I met x, y, Zed, and that person, you know, we did some work together, but it was just a really great relationship. And that led to other things. So I'm a huge fan of it. It's it's about the work, of course, but it's also about the relationship more broadly speaking, whatever you're doing as freelancer,
Scott Perry 15:50
that's a brilliant point, because freelancing is often a very lonely endeavour, as well. Many freelancers are, you know, sole proprietors, they're independent professionals, whatever terminology you want to use. And so, building into your routines, the relationships are, you know, those authentic connections that will help
Scott Perry 16:14
well, that are mutually enhancing each other's experience. And so, you know, being in a mastermind having a coach, being a coach, or, you know, being a mentor or mentee, however you want to frame it. Those things are really important because those connections are essential not just to supporting and encouraging your adventures in freelancing, but in your personal development and creating a network that will actually lead to better clients. Totally,
Conor McCarthy 16:47
adventures in freelancing is a great term, by the way, because that's what it is a total adventure. I hope you are enjoying this episode and that there’s some actionable and insightful advice that you can take to your business. Helping you identify and create those First 10 Customers is what I do, so if you like what you hear on this podcast and want more information, including a bunch of free resources on how to find your first customers and grow your business, check out first10podcast.com or find me on Twitter @TheFirst10Pod. Also, podcast reviews are more valuable than you would realize, and I’d really appreciate if you could take 2 minutes to jump on iTunes and leave a review of the First 10 podcast. Thanks. Now back to the show. So with creative on purpose, today, tell us about the origins of that and maybe about your first 10 customers in that domain.
Scott Perry 17:58
So I graduated from alt MBA six, in August of 2016. I entered alt MBA six with a plan to create an online guitar instruction Empire. And I exited the alt MBA, wanting to neither be a guitarist nor a guitar teacher. And not knowing really what else I was that I wanted to do. I just had these two like I was at the time going through a significant shift in my own life. And I was really doubling down on my study of stoic philosophy because I needed that to get me through. And I was rethinking what my creative life looked like because music was, has always been very fulfilling to me both in performance and as a teacher, maybe maybe even more as a teacher than as a performer. But I felt like it wasn't the only thing. The only way I could creatively express myself. And also NBA, as you know, we do a lot of writing, and a lot of collaborating. And I was doing very little of either of those things. As a musician, I was often on the road by myself, or even when I was in a band, I was always the band leader. And if you want to be all alone in a group Group, a group of people be the band leader.
Scott Perry 19:33
so I just can't I exited the alt MBA with this idea the stoic guitarist might not. And so I played with that for a year or so then I got invited by Seth Godin to participate in the marketing seminar. And there I came up with the store creative and Seth Godin said to me, the store creative is a really bad brand name, because people don't know everybody in the world, even the stoics misunderstand what stoicism is I said, No, Seth, it's brilliant. Everybody's gonna get it. Well, turns out turns out that my first book, the store creative, was launched around the idea of the first 10, I built an Amazon sales page, I said, if I pre sell 10 bucks, I'll write a book. So I pre sold 11, I don't know, wasn't many more than 10. And I put myself on the hook, I wrote the book. And it's a book I even though it's my first book, and it's your first book is always ugly. It's a book that still sells and people still tell me they love and it's still fun, useful, but turns out Seth Godin was right. So creative is terrible branding, terrible positioning, creatives don't understand stoicism and stoics don't understand creativity. So I was invited back to the marketing seminar for the fourth session. And that's I came up with creative on purpose, I don't know how it just kind of came to me. Now bear in mind, this is like three and a half years into my endeavour. And actually, I was doing a broadcast with Seth. And he actually made a point of saying, creative on purpose. That is brilliant branding. So I knew I had something, I still didn't know what it was gonna be. So I did I played around with, you know, I don't know about you, Connor. But I've found that writing books on Amazon is not a pathway to early retirement, or fame and fortune. It's fun. And it's certainly a great way to get the word out. And it's a great way to clarify your thinking and your ideas. But, you know, I wasn't going to become a full time author. I was trying to create online courses. And that was, I found that to be a difficult, you know, kind of a slog. And so I decided I was going to try coaching, what's interesting is when I exited the alt MBA, three and a half years previous, everybody said, golly, you're a great coach, you should just develop a coaching practice. I said, Man, I don't want to be a coach, my wife would tell me daily, why don't you just be a coach? No, I don't want to be a coach. Well, three and a half years into my adventure, it was time to either, you know, make, make it sustainable by making some money that would pay for this, you know, all the platform creating and all the time I was, you know, I invested probably six hours a day, every day for three and a half years, and never made a penny. And so I set up the I just sent a sales pages, you know, that basically said, I'm a coach, if you want help, identifying, developing and delivering an endeavour that makes a difference, I can help. And I said to myself, if I sell, if I get 10 clients, this is what I'll do. My first sales page, I got 11 clients. And wow, yeah, so that that's how the coaching practice and which has blossomed into a community and, you know, continues to turn out handbooks and all sorts of other content, including a broadcast of its own. But that's, that's how creative on purpose became a viable and sustainable enterprise by literally employing this principle of first 10. Which, when I came across your podcast, it was just like, that sob that is the best podcast name ever. Why didn't I think of that? Because that's, that's my life.
Conor McCarthy 23:46
And who you are this here today, that is a pretty amazing story. And like, I've kind of watched your journey I remember the stoic guitarist and I remember you, I did not to be five. So I was like, you know, you we were definitely circling each other watch the growth of, of, of everything. I didn't know some of those details. And it's fascinating. The just just the the kind of almost The, the, like, the non efforts, almost putting up a sales page, like you've spent so long, doing intentional on to this onto this onto this focus. And at the end, it was a thing that just kind of you just put together and put out there. See what happened to that was what worked? Well,
Scott Perry 24:21
yeah. The creative, creative on purpose handbook. Ellis, I just shared the process that worked for me, and it's basically, you know, define what your endeavour is, and I define that as being at the intersection of who you are, what you're good at and where you belong. What are your values? What are your skills, hard and soft skills and talents? Who are the people who share your values in nature talents to enhance their lives at the intersection of that is something that you can do where you can make money and when you decide what that is, come up with the smallest viable offer. And because now you already have your endeavour and you audience, your smallest viable audience now just put a put up a sales page. If you sell, you know, it doesn't have to be 10, necessarily, but you know, you just decide. So. And then once you, once you sell it is this has to be small enough that you can build it in a weekend or build it in a week or whatever, so that you can deliver the goods. And it's, it seems common sensical, like on this side of it. But how I can tell you, like, my very first online course, was a beginner guitar. Course. 50 lessons, I don't know how many hours of my life I invested in that, but I was positive. Because I was a very good guitar teacher. I was positive that this thing was just what the world needed. And I sold two of them. Well, all that time and effort, you know, and two people showed up, two people loved it. Two people learned how to play the guitar. But I mean, it was just never, I could never crack that nut. Because in the online guitar, teaching space, it's free. It's on YouTube, why would you, you know, why would anybody pay for it. So, you know, that was the hard lesson for me is like, you know, don't create what you want to create or create what you think people want, sell the idea of what you want. And then when once it's sold, just make the idea. And then, you know, rinse and repeat. And the thing about verse 10. And, you know, just what I love about your podcasts, and this approach is, if you can, so thoroughly please and delight and serve those people that they can't help but go tell talk about you to other people like them. It's also your built in marketing, it's how you spread the word, you know, 10, people can can quickly become 100 people, and that can quickly become 1000 people, if you do, you know, do everything with intention and integrity, if you do, if you just resist the impulse to that, you know, built from urgency, to, you know, make just make sales, you have to actually, you know, the care and the consideration and the generosity and the value all has to be there as well.
Conor McCarthy 27:22
Yeah, so Well said, I mean, as a freelancer you are, you're up close and personal with those that you work with. And those you serve. I mean, it's, it's kind of easy in a way to get to know them, you know, you're not, you're not selling to hundreds of 1000s of people were you you're working with customer avatars, etc. Like you can, you can probably name out of the people you want to work with that you can get in touch with them. To your point earlier, like it's easy to get in touch with people now. And you know, one of the things you said that was really interesting about, you just put up the idea. So I'm guessing you didn't really know what it was gonna look like.
Scott Perry 27:53
I mean, I had at that point, I probably had my Venn diagram, you know, that I shared earlier. And I was definitely just leaning on my, my stoic studies, you know, just basic philosophy of life. That's been true forever, about how to thrive in difficult circumstances. That's what stoicism is. It's a it's a philosophy built for navigating uncertainty and adversity and thriving and having a thriving experience while doing so by because it's a philosophy that teaches you that the only path to equanimity is through character, and through caring about others. Hmm.
Conor McCarthy 28:42
That's your you're very, you're lucky in a way that stoicism has been your kind of guiding light as a freelancer because yeah, you're, you're kind of giving nature really helps. as a freelancer, I think you just have to be a giver to be to be a successful freelancer. I always ask my guests about favourite books. And I think, you know, stoicism was such a big part of your life and you're probably tired of talking about stoic books. But for someone who's like, you know, I really got an eye. I'm hearing a lot about stoicism. I should check it out. Where should what should they read? What should they do?
Scott Perry 29:20
If so, here's the wonderful thing about stoicism. It is pragmatic, practical philosophy that has always resisted academic convolution. And in curriculum Ising are that's not a word, but you know what I mean? It's, I mean, it's just true on the face of it. So I'm a big fan of going directly to the sources. Marcus Aurelius is meditation has been my handbook throughout my entire life. I was introduced to it in the seventh grade, which was a very long time ago. Just a few years previous Marcus Aurelius was walking on At All that said, If you are looking for a modern introduction, William Irvine has a book that I am not going to remember the title of, but it's something like the art of living. The Art of stoic joy remembers the subtitle. Lots of people talk about obstacles way by Ryan Holiday. And there's lots of other books. William Irvine's book is absolutely the most brilliant and fun introduction to the philosophy. So if you're not going to start with Marcus Aurelius or Epictetus, or Seneca, I would start with William Urban's book or the other more current text is Donald's Robertson's, how to think like Roman Empire Emperor, which is based on the basic store principles and practices that come store principles or practices that that are drawn out of Marcus Aurelius his book.
Conor McCarthy 31:07
Okay, thanks for those two questions to finish up. One is because of your role, as the head coach with freelancers workshop, what is one mistake that you see freelancers making, when they're starting out?
Scott Perry 31:28
I would say it's the same mistake that you make. When when you're well into your career, which is, how do I get more people, that's not a great strategy, and a not a great way of thinking because you don't need more people, you need a few of the right people. And the right people are not going to be are not going to trip over you and your social media campaigns. And, you know, wherever else you're screaming into the void, you know, on online, if you will, be focused, clear, brave and disciplined and reach out directly to people already, you know, in your sphere of connection in your sphere of influence in your and have, again, just honest, direct, relevant, personal conversations with people where you can demonstrate your skill, demonstrate your expertise, demonstrate and and act generously, you will get that in return. I mean, it, I do my brand marketing on social media, just like anybody else, I spent all of 10 minutes there, because I am not going to earn any new clients on social media. Instead, I take really, really, really good care of the 650 or so people on my email list and the clientele that I have and have had. And when I need new clients, I all I need to do is pick up the phone and say, Hey, I have two openings. I'm looking for a client. That's is just as dynamite as you were, Do you know anybody that would i would benefit from colliding with me, I welcome a chance to have a 15 minute call to see if if there's a there there. And we can then decide if there's a better fit. Sometimes those clients say, Oh, yes, you skip here. Uh, yeah, you know what I actually need to get with you again. And other times I say, you know, I'm good right now. But I do actually have a couple of friends that would be perfect for you. And it's so much more just fulfilling, and you know, then spending endless cycles on social media or even worse Facebook ads. You know, trying to get the word out, you know, you don't. So that just, you know, but that is a challenge at every stage of the freelancers journey because it is terrifying. To stand up obscene speak up to be heard, and say, This is who I am, this is what I do. And I want to do it with someone just like you, I actually write a list of all the people I want to coach. And I just, I just continue to have conversations with them and the people around them. And I let them know, I've got a list of 10 people
Conor McCarthy 34:40
here on the list.
Scott Perry 34:41
And you know, if it doesn't happen, that's cool. Yeah. You know, I still want to be connected. I still want to have a conversation. But I'm just letting you know, I this is a very short list and you're on it. So if you if not you then then who do you know that that's like you That that's ready to do this. And that being that intentional, has just made all the difference.
Conor McCarthy 35:08
While okay, but my last question doesn't even apply anymore because it was in what you just said, was a very practical advice where people are gonna have to find their first 10 customers, and you've given so much more in that, that last answer, Scott, you're eminently quotable. Thank you so, so much for sharing all those parts of your journey and all the things you've learned along the way and sharing so much as most of your personal philosophy. Because, I mean, you've been at it for years. And you still I mean, routines and relationships, part of your routine is, is the study and the kind of, you know, immersing yourself in stoic philosophy. And I think it's really paying off.
Scott Perry 35:47
Absolutely, this has been so much fun. You're a great interviewer. But you should get me the title of your podcast cuz I love the title. It's been a pleasure and an honour, this time, and I just, you know, I want all of your listeners to know that you and I digital years practically went to kindergarten together. And I've been following your journey from the sidelines for quite some time. And, you know, I've been admiring the difference you make on a daily basis, wherever you show up for years, and so I appreciate the difference that you're making and the goodness that
Conor McCarthy 36:22
you're spreading. Very kind as always, thank you so, so much, Scott. Next time on the first 10 podcast, Jay Clouse is going to share some fundamental techniques you can implement now to help you grow your freelance business and it becomes such a superpower because it will empower you to commit to things that you know are going to be good and to say no to things that you know you don't have time for that and more on the next episode of the first 10 podcast.
