#21 - Preston Lee of Millo.co
#21 - Understanding your value with Preston Lee
On this episode of The First 10 Podcast, I talk to Preston Lee, founder of Millo.co, where he and his team help freelancers get more freelance jobs and grow their client list.
Key Points
The skills you need to be a successful freelancer aren't taught in school
Freelancers need to develop the habit of selling to avoid feat and famine cycles
When starting out, don't be too picky about your clients. You are there to learn so take all the work you can get.
Be careful of throwing in the towel on your day job to become a full-time freelancer when you start out. Starting as a side hustle can be a better approach.
Show Notes
Life Profitability by Adii Pienaar
Contact Details
LinkedIn
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Transcription
SPEAKERS Conor McCarthy, Preston Lee
Preston Lee 00:01
The power of habits in your business particularly when you're a one person business, like a freelancer can completely turn your business around. It can help when you're lacking motivation, which happens to all of us when you're facing imposter syndrome, which happens with all of us. The power of habits can really, really drive your business forward.
Conor McCarthy 00:20
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the first 10 podcast where I interview Business Builders on their first 10 customers who they were had they found them, or they talked to them and what effect they had of their business so that you can learn what worked and what didn't. My guest today is Preston Lee. He's the founder of solid gigs where he and his team help freelancers, get more freelance jobs and grow their client list. He also runs millo.co, and they help freelancers level up their freelancing career, Preston is definitely at the heart of the freelancing world. And this episode is stuffed with takeaways for freelancers. For instance, we talked about the skills that we weren't taught in school that are crucial first freelancers about the value in starting out as a side hustler, and learning the business of being a freelancer. That way we hit upon the topic of sales, and the simplest ways to find clients, you get some really good examples. And spoiler alert, it turns out that a very simple but powerful sales technique might just be making friends wherever you go. We also cover the impact of positive habits and the value in identifying your values. Lastly, we talked about what happens when you go from being a single Freelancer doing your work to hitting the jackpot and having more work than you can handle. How exactly do you scale a freelancing business? President and his team? As I said, they live at the centre of this freelancing world, their websites are well worth it. Look, if you're a freelancer, that the very least his blog is stuffed with actionable free information, so it's worth diving into. So please enjoy this conversation with Preston Lee. Either first 10 podcast listeners. I'm here today with Preston Lee Preston, first of all, thank you very, very much for taking the time to be with us here today. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your business story so far? And what you're working on right now?
Preston Lee 01:56
Sure. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here and excited to chat with your audience today. I, I run a website.I run a couple websites, but I run a company really called millo am I ll O, you can find everything we're working on@millo.co. So we basically I mean, our mission is to help freelancers start and grow and scale their businesses. And so we have a lot going on in that realm. But but that's our mission really is, is to help freelancers charged with their worth, find clients that they enjoy working with, and that sort of thing. So I know later in later on, in the episode, we'll dive into some details of what we're working on specifically. But we've got, you know, a big blog with lots of resources, a podcast, we've got a membership site called solid gigs. And, you know, digital products and all that sort of thing. So it's it's, it's quite the little small team, small operation, but a lot of fun. Yeah, small team, big Empire.
Conor McCarthy 02:57
It's pretty cool. Do you remember what it was? Like when you first started out? as a freelancer yourself?
Preston Lee 03:03
Oh, absolutely. So I, I remember, my first freelance job was in high school or secondary school. And, and I, one of my teachers, and I was on the yearbook staff. Which, which meant for those not familiar, I was helping design the, you know, the book for the end of the year with everyone's photos and stories in it. And and I had done such good work there that a friend of our teacher, that teacher who was our yearbook, staff, recommended that I design a logo for them. And in hindsight, I have no idea why she thought I'd be good at a logo. I hadn't done any logos at that point. But anyway, I that was my first freelance client, it went fine. It didn't really lead to anything. I ended up completing the project. And it was fine was a you know, a few 100 extra dollars for me in high school, which was great. But but then really, my freelance career, I would say, actually started later, when I was in college. I had worked at a design and marketing studio as an intern for a little while. And then I left that to pursue just working with clients on my own. And so for the last two years of my time at university, I put my wife and myself through our last two years of school there with my freelancing work. Wow, okay, it's really you must have learned a lot on that journey from from designing a logo right up to putting your family through university and it's really interesting this,
Conor McCarthy 04:26
you mentioned the three parts to the freelance journey and not not to say that they're the only three parts but starting growing and scaling. Sure. To to just talk around each of those, I suppose in turn, you know, when it comes to starting freelance businesses, what do you what mistakes Do you see people make when they when they're getting off the block so to speak?
Preston Lee 04:45
Yeah, I love this question. Because there are a lot that I see. You know, we, we we talk with 1000s of freelancers on a weekly basis, many of them in this early stage of maybe They work a nine to five job and they're hoping to start freelancing, maybe they freelance on the side, and they'd like to get more serious about it. But you know, when, when we, most of us who are freelancers, we tend to be more creative. You know, writers, illustrators, designers, marketers, developers, we make things we're makers. And so we went to school, a lot of us to learn how to make things to learn how to learn a tangible skill, like let's take design as an example. So we learned how to be a great designer, and we learned the principles of design, and then were thrown out into the world and we maybe get a job, or maybe we want to start freelancing. And we realise all of the sudden, there's a whole slew of other skills we were never taught. Particularly in in terms of running a business, we were never taught how to make a sales call, we were never taught how to send an invoice, we were never taught how to figure out pricing, or send a proposal or do all the little things that have to happen before the design or whatever your craft before that actually begins. And so you know, what a lot of us make the mistake of and I did the same thing early on in my freelance careers, we spend a lot of time kind of dreaming about what our business might look like, right. And so we take forever on figuring our business name, and we take forever, you know, figuring out where we're gonna get our business cards printed, and designing our logo and little details like that, that really are ultimately important can be ultimately important, but aren't the most critical piece, the most critical piece, the thing Freelancer should start with is getting their first clients getting their first jobs, and learning what it's like to actually make money as a freelancer until you're making money. You don't have a business on your hands. You have a hobby, right?
Conor McCarthy 06:45
I love that. Yeah, I mean, this, it's, it seems to be an eternal truth. And and it's I suppose it's, it's born out of the ambition to be a freelancer, but not really knowing what lies on the path ahead. And all those things, all the things you say, I mean, I struggled with those. When I started out, I thought it was all about getting a quote unquote, brand and a website and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, to your point, it's, it's about getting customers first.
Preston Lee 07:10
And that's not that those things aren't important should come a little bit later in the journey.
Conor McCarthy 07:14
Yeah, exactly. So when it comes to, when it comes to get to get really specific when it comes to finding those customers, I mean, I've had so many conversations with freelancers who even at that stage of but like the board who question, almost out of desperation in a lot of cases, what what would you say to people who are like, I really don't know where to turn, people are just about that very, very early stage.
Preston Lee 07:39
Yeah. Well, this is this is part of the reason actually, and I'm not trying to use this as a way to plug our service. So I'll just skim over this quickly. But this is part of the reason we started our service called solid gigs is because we were working with freelancers for six or seven years. And we just kept hearing over and over and over. Yeah, this information you're publishing on the blog, and in the podcast, that's nice. But what I really need are jobs, I really need freelance jobs, I don't know where to start, I don't know how to get my first clients. I don't know how to get regular clients. You know, we hear about feast famine all the time. And so we started this subscription service called solid gigs, where we actually find the jobs for our customers. Now, barring that, if you don't want to be a part of that, that's fine. There are plenty of other ways to do it. You know, I believe firmly in starting your freelance career as a side hustle, learning your craft and learning business, while you're at a day job, and then taking the things you're learning there, especially if you're very young, you know, early 20s. And taking what you learn there and applying it to a freelance business. And so you might, you might learn, you might get a sales job or a job that has sales or marketing related tasks, so that you can learn how to reach out to people on LinkedIn, that's a great way to start, you can reach out and offer free or discounted services just to get a few projects in your portfolio. LinkedIn is a great place to offer those kinds of things. Maybe you find local businesses that you're passionate about, you know, a restaurant you'd love to eat at, or movie theatre you enjoy going towards, or some something that you have a personal connection with. And you can go say, I'd love to redesign your website, or I'd love to rewrite the copy on your website, or I'd love to, you know, do take some photography of your venue. And so you can add it to your website or whatever it is that you offer. You know, if you're very early on, go get a job so you can keep food on the table. And then start getting some experience you can build a portfolio and learn what it's like to interact with clients. Now, this isn't a long term strategy giving away giving away work right. But, but it can be a great way to learn what it's like to really work with clients.
Conor McCarthy 09:43
That is really solid advice. And again, you I am sure you've met plenty people who who have thrown in the towel of their day job to say I'm going to be a freelancer and when that when the crickets when they hear the crickets of customers. It's like oh, maybe that was a bit too soon. So I love I love that. I Do about even starting with what you're interested in? It sounds so obvious, but I think it's it's maybe not done enough, you know, thinking about your A lot of people think I'm going to go online and find work. But maybe maybe, as Steve Blank would say, you just got to get out of the building and go to your local neighbourhoods and and approach people and ask them, How can you help? Yeah. I love that.
Preston Lee 10:22
And I love that. That's exactly the right kind of question to ask. You know, I co host a podcast called freelance to founder. And we were chatting recently with a guy by the name of Matt Essam, and he's a coach for freelancers. And he was he was teaching us about. So my co host, his name is Clay clay was saying his mission in life or his like, basically, his sales strategy is just to make as many friends as possible, and then let them know what he does. Right? That's all he has to do. So that he so that they know he's the marketing guy, he's the social media guy. So so that when that problem arises, they know to call clay. And Matt was saying to even take it a step further. You know, you you start lesson, he gave an example of a freelancer he was working with who, who visited a rock wall on a weekly basis. And he just encouraged this freelancer, he said, Go make friends with the owner of the of that place. Because you love you know, the outdoors, you love, rock climbing, etc. You're going to be passionate about the subject matter and go make friends with the owner. And then at some point in your conversation mentioned what you do, and I guarantee he'll become a client, and it turns out at work that way, so you're right, just offering just meeting people and showing that you can offer value that can really cut like the, you know, I know a lot of people are very scared of the sales process and feeling sleazy and salesy, right, but that can add a lot of that out.
Conor McCarthy 11:47
Yeah, yeah, we might touch on that in a second. Yeah, I love that. That's such a great business. One, one phrase business plan, you don't make as many friends as possible. And let them know what I do is it's so simple, because it's true. And when I when someone approaches me and says, I need someone to do XYZ, I can go well, who's in my circle? Who comes to mind immediately? Right? Derek Severs actually talks about that a lot in his latest book, which is interesting. It's just like, go out, just make as many friends as you can, and be known for doing a thing. And then you'll be you'll be in people's heads. And it's also I think it's an interesting approach, because you never know, what the problems are that people are facing. So not until you actually have a conversation with the rock wall owner, might you find out things that maybe he's never said before he or she has never said before? It could be sales, it could be marketing, it could be anything, really. But having the conversation is maybe the scary but ideal first step?
Preston Lee 12:42
Yeah, absolutely.
Conor McCarthy 12:45
When it comes to sales, just while we're on the topic, how do you because it is it's, it's a, it can be a big, scary word. But I really believe that you need a good squirt of sales. In most things to do in life. How would you? How would you define sales? For a freelancer?
Preston Lee 13:03
Yeah, you know, most freelancers, I'd say at least most and again, I talked to 1000s of them every week, deal with this feast famine problem, right, where one month, I have a tonne of work next month, I have no work. That's not a coincidence. That's because our, our intake of new clients, our client work, and therefore our client revenue, follow the same path of our sales. And so a month when you're very busy with work, you tend to not do as much selling, therefore, the following month, you don't have work. I mean, it's it's a simple a simple equation, right? You do sales month one, you have work and revenue month two, but then in month two, if you're only doing work and you don't continue selling, then in month three, you're back down in the famine, site part of the cycle, right. And so for freelancers who want consistent clients, and Predictable Revenue and revenue that you can actually build a business on, you have to be constantly selling. And that can that could mean you know, using cold outreach, using software to reach out to potential clients that could mean going to weekly meetups, of course, less common now than it has been in the past. But we'll get back one day to when those are very common again. That could mean sending, you know, weekly LinkedIn messages to people who you want to connect with. But But the idea is to consistently be selling if you want consistent clients and revenue. I love
Conor McCarthy 14:33
that. Yeah, the feast and famine roller coaster is, is pretty prevalent. And yeah, I agree. I think there's always just an ounce of selling consistently adds up over time. It's one of the things that compounds and if there was, you know, again, I think when it comes to sales, people think it's all about scripts and it's about you know, reading reading the right books, and it's you know that there is some dark art to If you could give just one easy putting on the spot now but like what's one sales technique? And and it can be something Yeah, evens telescope with the word technique because it's it might sound a sleazy, but just one thing that you regard as selling that is really obvious and easy to do.
Preston Lee 15:16
Yeah, yeah. This is easy for me to answer because I think one of the biggest barriers to people selling is not understanding the value that they bring to someone. So you think about when you see a great movie, when you read a great book, when you listen to a great podcast, when you experience something really great, you go somewhere great, you eat some great food, whatever, you start telling people about it, right? Because you want them to experience the value that you've experienced as well. And so, as a freelancer, you know, many freelancers are scared to say, I do graphic design, you know, would you like to chat or i or i do whatever, let's let's talk, I think I could help your business. But that's because they maybe are facing this imposter syndrome, or they don't see the value in what they're providing. And so I think sales, I have seen this actually, with many freelancers, sales becomes infinitely easier when you get way more clarity on the value that you provide to clients. Because then all of a sudden, you say, instead of selling feeling like trying to convince someone to pay you money for a thing, you're not that confident in all of a sudden selling becomes you sharing with people what you can bring to the table, and being excited to offer it to them, because you know, will make a difference. If you know that you're a freelance marketer, and you can drive sales up by 20%. You're excited to say that, and you're excited to pitch that to people, because you know, you can help their business.
Conor McCarthy 16:48
I love that. Yeah, it's it's, it's, it's always putting a request out to, for them to join in a conversation with you to say something so compelling to them, that they kind of go, Oh, that's interesting. Let's talk some more. And then you're almost I always picture these things visually, where it's like, instead of talking face to face, then you're kind of going on a walk with them, you're side by side. Yeah. And then did you have a chance to get to know that person who wrote better? That's really interesting when it comes to. So if people start to get a little bit of momentum, and they start to get some clients under their belt, and you know, maybe they have a good kind of a sales pipeline going for a better words, when it comes to things like positioning and value propositions? What would be your advice around those?
Preston Lee 17:30
Yeah, you know, that those will, those will fluctuate and change as you mature in your freelance career, I would say, position yourself as an expert, or as a partner, or as a consultant will always pay off in spades in terms of revenue, because then you convert yourself from being, you know, essentially an employee of a client, and someone who, whatever the equivalent is of pushing pixels or moving commas or doing some sort of menial task. Instead, you now are consulted on where you're consulting rather on, on questions that your client has about what's the best next strategic move? What What should we do next? That not only guarantees that you have a say in what work you do, so that you enjoy that more, but also to charge more? Because you're seen as as as an expert? Hmm.
Conor McCarthy 18:24
I like that. Yeah. That's your point about a changing over time is very true. I find myself repositioning myself more than I've done. Sure. Before, it's, it's, it's really good, because as well, I think you The more you learn, the more you realise, oh, this is where my expertise is. Yeah, this is how I should start pitching myself.
Preston Lee 18:45
Yeah. And and it should change over time. I mean, in the beginning, you might compete on price, your positioning might be I'm the cheapest graphic designer in the city. Right, just get some work in the door. But but you don't want to, you don't want to do that forever. So eventually, your positioning will change to I'm the most experienced graphic designer in the city, I understand this industry better than any designer you'll meet or, you know, I drive these results for my clients. And so, yeah, over time, as you start to build out a reputation, that reputation will also impact your positioning as well.
Conor McCarthy 19:17
So as as people, you know, once they once they've started, let's say they have this momentum going and it comes to growing their freelancing business. Is that a difference? Is that a different a very different mindset to the start out place?
Preston Lee 19:31
For me, it is, I believe in the starting out phase, you are a creators, still, primarily you're a maker, you still are doing a lot of the work as you start to grow, and I'll maybe lump in grow and scale. There are definitely some differences, but there's probably more overlap than difference. As you move into the grow or scale phase of your freelance business, you have to start thinking more like an entrepreneur and less like a creator. So again, move going back again to being a designer just to stick with This same thread, right? If I'm a designer, in the early days of my freelance career, I am selling a lot, and I am pitching a lot, and I'm working on my business. But really probably the bulk of my hours, 80% or more are on actually doing design work. However, eventually, I'm going to run out of hours in the day, even if I'm Superman, and I sleep, you know, two hours a night or something, eventually, I'm going to run out of time. And eventually, if I want to grow my business, I'm going to have to either charge more, which that also tends to have a cap at some point. Or I'm going to have to hire people. And now I could hire someone to run the business if I really truly enjoyed designing more than anything else. But the odds are, if I if I enjoyed designing more than anything else, I probably just thought to get a job as a designer. So really, what will probably happen is you'll hire subcontracted designers under you to to do some of the pixel pushing and some of the, the quote unquote grunt work while you work on the strategy of your business. And so for me, that's the critical difference. When you're in the early stages, you're a maker, you're doing a lot of the day to day work, when you want to start to grow, and particularly scale, which is maybe just a word for faster growth, you have to start taking on some of the daily tasks of an entrepreneur and handing off some of the daily tasks of a maker to people who you have subcontracted or hired.
Conor McCarthy 21:17
Very interesting becomes a different beast altogether doesn't Yeah, yeah. producing the variables of other people. And there's a big trust element there as well. I guess. I imagined when I tell me for Robert, I, when when freelancers do this, when they say right, I've got enough work that I need to bring people on the middle return to their friends.
Preston Lee 21:37
First, I would say that's true, or people they've worked with in the past people are familiar with.
Conor McCarthy 21:41
Yeah. And so when, when have you seen it working when as being a situation where someone has got to that stage and brought on some extra help? Or whatever way they structured it? It's been actually great.
Preston Lee 21:54
Yeah, sure. I've seen quite a few examples. You know, I've done it personally, myself running the blog, I reached out first to people who were leaving a lot of comments and contributing to the blog, I reached out to them to help me manage some of the content because I knew that they got what we were doing. They understood our mission, they believed in our mission. And so those were people that I reached out to first and said, Hey, I need I need, you know, a few hours a week helping me do x y, x y Zed as you would say, XYZ. And, and, and can you help me and those people were highly receptive, and I already knew they were a good fit. And so that was an easy hire. I've also seen it work with, you know, freelancers, who maybe in the past, they've collaborated, maybe a writer collaborates with a designer. And, and, and then decides that they have enough clients asking for design work that they need someone, quote, unquote, on staff, or someone who they can give regular work to. And so I've seen those kinds of collaborations and sub contracting work really, really well. Definitely people turn to the people they've worked with before, and the people they trust the most, because like you said, it is all about trust. Hmm.
Conor McCarthy 23:03
Yeah. I mean, it is, it seems like a pretty obvious thing to do. And I'm sure it works out great in a lot of stories. I think that's pretty smart. You reaching out to people who obviously had a deep interest in what you were doing and seem capable and willing to do it. I think that's a great, great idea. That's right, good keeping, you're keeping your eyes open, when can you remember a time when you failed and got a huge learning out of that failure?
Preston Lee 23:31
Oh, boy, which to choose. Any, any slight success that I've had, has, has also come just riddled with with failures along the way. Um, I think that's part of being an entrepreneur and part of growing something on your own, you know, we were a bootstrapped business, we've never taken on funding or anything like that. And so it's, we kind of learn by, you know, trial by fire a bit. In particular, I remember. Well, let me give you an example. From my freelancing days, since we're on the on the theme of freelancing, you know, I have plenty of examples in growing my blog, but I feel like that would be less relevant maybe to this conversation. And so let me let me give you an example from my freelancing days early when I was freelancing, not necessarily my freelancing career, but this was probably eight or nine years ago, I was working with a client, I had done some work for them some graphic design work, and then some web design work. And we had a really great relationship. And then they called me one day and wanted to redesign a major portion of their website and they wanted to put an element that I won't go into the details, but I didn't I didn't really think was a smart idea from a marketing point of view. They didn't see me as a marketing person, even though I had been studying at a university in addition to my design stuff. And so I basically told him, I didn't think it was a good idea. I i 100% handled that wrong. And what resulted was they dropped me as you know, I they were no longer my client. They went with someone else who would, who would do what they were asking. Really the big failure was that I early on didn't establish myself as, as a partner or as an equal or as someone who they could trust my opinion. Instead, they just saw me as kind of someone who just took orders, did what they asked. And it resulted in the loss of a pretty good client for me. So I've had, I've had little spills like that along the way to what I've learned from but, but that's one that comes to mind.
Conor McCarthy 25:25
That is really, really interesting for a lot of reasons, just about, I suppose boundaries and showing up and you know, in some cases, developing the kind of relationship where you can have an honest conversation, and because if something seems amiss, that you can put your hand up and say, I've got an opinion, too. I'm just a freelance hire. But, you know, I also know something about this. That's a really interesting story. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, absolutely. Are there any books or other resources that you find are super helpful for freelancers starting out?
Preston Lee 26:04
Sure. I always recommend the book atomic habits, that book has changed my life and business, and probably has changed the lives of more people I know, personally, I've gifted the book, probably more than any other book. It's called atomic habits. If you haven't, if you haven't read it, or you don't know about it, those are listening. It's written by James clear. And the reason I recommend it for freelancing and just for life in general, is it talks about discipline yourself to do the things that it takes every day to achieve what you want. And so in terms of freelancing, this means making that sales call when you really just don't want to, but knowing that every Tuesday, no matter what, in the afternoon, for two hours, you make sales calls, and you develop that habit, so that automatically on Tuesday afternoon, your brain or your calendar goes, Hey, it's time to make sales calls. You know, the habit of working daily to complete your projects for your clients so that you hit deadlines, so that freelancers can become less and less notorious for missing deadlines, the power of habits in your business, particularly when you're a one person business, like a freelancer can completely turn your business around. It can help when you're lacking motivation, which happens to all of us when you're facing imposter syndrome, which happens to all of us. The power of habits can really, really drive your business forward.
Conor McCarthy 27:21
I love that I I read the book first came out, and I loved it. And I think I need to go back and reread it because a few people recently have said, This is such a good book. So when I saw on Twitter the other day, someone said, you know, in 50 years, people probably look back on atomic habits in the same way we look at what's the book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Now, you know, as in a an all time classic? Absolutely. Who you know, will age very well.
Preston Lee 27:46
Absolutely. Or how to win friends and influence people. Yes,
Conor McCarthy 27:49
exactly. Yeah, those classics. Yeah, yeah, like I love, I love what you've taken from it, because that is a great book, if you almost double down on the message, the messages that it contains. Because you're right, as we've touched on a couple of times already, you know, having having a good sales habit is really beneficial. You know, just within your business. Also, there's there's other applications in life, but you could probably make a habit out of most things as a freelancer most. And that will serve you pretty well.
Preston Lee 28:18
Absolutely, absolutely. In fact, if you if you've already read it, I'd recommend you go back and read it again, through the lens of you know, building your business, particularly if you're a freelancer through the lens of growing your freelance business and say, How can I apply these principles to growing a business?
Conor McCarthy 28:32
Yes, that is a great idea. I will I will do that. I'm rereading essentialism at the moment, the Greg McMillan book. And it is also surprisingly relevant to freelancing work. I mean, a lot of the core messages about you know, what's, what's the most important thing I need to be doing right now. And that, in a way, he advocates for developing the habit of saying that to yourself all the time. So when you know it is being an essential list as is, as is its own habit in a way. That's another one I would recommend.
Preston Lee 29:05
I do like that I need to read that book. I haven't picked that one up, but I have heard of it. The other one that I that I have on my list to read. I will recommend only because I've had an actual conversation with the author on my podcast. But it's called the book is called Life profitability. And it just released quite recently, but it's by a guy by the name of ad painter. And he talks about it's sort of a mix of these two things we're talking about which is yes, build a business but but build a business, you know on your terms with your own life priorities in order. You don't have to always be chasing the next big financial milestone, you don't always have to be giving up your nights and weekends to pursue a goal. You know that that is mostly just meant to impress other people or to or to make other people think that you're an engineer or a wonderful entrepreneur, like set your goals and your priorities and I love that But kind of thinking as someone who my entire reason for working for myself is so that I can spend more time with my family. You know, I just love his way of thinking through framing your freelance business or any kind of business through that lens.
Conor McCarthy 30:12
Yeah, I think that's a really, I'll definitely pick that book up. I think that's a really useful exercise as well, to kind of get out of the weeds of freelancing, and maybe to do it regularly, again, to make it a habit, but just to kind of, you know, reset the dial and say, Well, why am I doing this, you know, you, you've got a very solid reason for doing the work you want to do. And I think that really probably helps guide you, it probably helps guide a lot of your decision making. Would that be correct?
Preston Lee 30:37
Yeah, and particularly guides long term decision making, right? Like, maybe on a day to day basis, it doesn't but it but it does. It does help me see, like, you know, I, let's, let's say kind of a crazy example, if I had a great idea for a food truck, right, and, and I thought it could take off, and it could do really well. I still wouldn't start that because a food truck require me to be gone nights, weekends. And really the whole, like I said, the whole reason I work for myself, is to be with my family. And so if they're at school all day, my kids are at school all day, and they come home at night, and dad has to run off to run the food truck in the evening that that doesn't fulfil my real purpose for working for myself. So even if I thought I had the best idea in the world for a food truck, I would still pass on that idea because it doesn't align with my long term vision or my long term goals for myself. Hmm,
Conor McCarthy 31:29
I love that. Yeah. And they like after getting your first customers and getting a bit of momentum. That's this kind of stuff that really pays off thinking about having your values and being able to, to align to those. Just as a last question, what would you What would you say to someone just starting out to find their first 10 customers?
Preston Lee 31:49
A lot to say, but I, I would say, um, you know, let's continue on this thread of freelancing, I would say particularly if you're looking for maybe your first 10 clients or customers, as a freelancer, I would say don't be too picky. You know, there's that there's a tendency in freelancing to say, you know, don't you no charge, what you're worth and all this advice. And that's good advice. When you're an intermediate or advanced freelancer, when you're when you're just getting started, take any job that comes your way, do a good job at it, learn what it's like to work with a client. And just don't be too picky. And start to learn the craft of actually being a freelancer in addition to the craft that you're already great at. So I would say when getting your first 10 clients or customers in particular, don't, don't be too picky do do find people that you feel I could working with them working on their projects could help you in some way in the future, whether that's building a portfolio or getting quality experience. But don't turn people away. Unless you have a really, really great reason to do that. You'll learn a lot from those first 10. Even if you don't even if you don't make, you know, tonnes and tonnes of money from those first 10 projects, you'll learn about what it takes to be a freelancer and on a freelance business.
Conor McCarthy 32:54
That's fantastic. That is really great advice. And that's a wonderful place to wrap up. Thank you so much, Preston. I mean, like I've obviously look through your your websites, and it is the mecca for freelancers. So include all the details in the show notes, and I say it in the intro when I record is you have to visit mellow and solid gigs. And again, like look up the show notes. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak to everyone here today. And I hope you have a good rest of your day.
Preston Lee 33:24
It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Conor McCarthy 33:32
That's a wrap. I hope you enjoyed this episode and that there was something in there that was actionable and insightful for your business. Do check out the show notes for more information on what we discussed, as well as ways to contact my guest. And it would really make by year if you could help me grow the podcast by leaving a rating or even a review. Helping you identify and create those first 10 customers is what I do. So if you like what you hear on this podcast and want more information, including a bunch of free resources on how to find your first customers and grow your business, do check out www.first10podcast.com, or find me on Twitter @TheFirst10Pod.