#28 - Matt Olpinski of the Freelance Institute
[#28] - How to operate as a freelancer with Matt Olpinski
Matt Olpinski is a successful UI + UX designer and developer who teaches thousands of freelancers how to get more clients, raise their rates and create a better life for themselves.
In this episode, Matt discusses in depth how to operate as a freelancer. Matt shares how he accidentally fell into the world of freelancing and how you can find clients through your personal network by letting people know what it is that you do. Matt also reveals how he transitioned from being a full-time freelancer to running his agency and how he built his own lively community – The Freelance Institute. Key points covered throughout the episode include:
Matt’s leap into full-time freelancing.
Communicating with clients and delivering value.
Learning from conversations and evolving through feedback.
Useful resources for operating your business.
Freelance transformation - the shift from freelancing to running an agency.
How to position yourself and scale your business.
Finding the right people to work alongside.
How to develop and grow a thriving community.
Advice on finding your first 10 customers.
Unlocking the power within your personal network.
Matt holds over ten years of industry experience and has worked with renowned world-class brands such as Facebook, Coca Cola, PayPal, Porsche, and Google, to name but a few.
Matt’s Freelance Institute is a community for freelancers and remote workers, where you can receive the best freelancing advice by talking directly to experienced freelancers, including Matt in a private community focused on helping you learn the business of freelancing.
Connect with Matt Olpinski:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattolpinski/
The Freelance Institute – A community for freelancers and remote workers.
http://mattolpinski.com/community/
Connect with First 10 Podcast host Conor McCarthy:
http://twitter.com/TheFirst10Pod
http://www.linkedin.com/in/comccart/
Resources:
The Blueprint by Brendan Dunn
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17607204-the-blueprint
Useful business tools:
A proprietary business communication platform:
A visual collaboration tool:
A community platform for creators:
Produced in partnership with podlad.com
Transcription
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
freelancers, people, clients, website, community, freelancing, conversations, positioning, business, transition, freelance, questions, learning, moment, talk, specific, network, college, subcontract, matt
SPEAKERS
Conor McCarthy, Matt Olpinski
Matt Olpinski 00:02
Your first client could be just one connection away from the people that you're actually talking to. So I think everyone nowadays they want to jump on these job board websites, and I think there's a lot of missed opportunity with personal networks.
Conor McCarthy 00:21
Hello, listeners, and welcome to the first 10 podcast. I'm your host Conor McCarthy and in each episode, I interview Business Builders on their first 10 customers, who they were, how they found them, how they talked to them, and what effect they had on their business so you can learn what worked and what didn't. When I'm not recording this podcast, I help Business Builders find their first 10 customers and grow their businesses. I do that with one to one coaching and a series of online workshops. So please do check out my website at ConorMcCarthy.me for more details, and to sign up to my newsletter. I hope you enjoy this show. My guest today is Matt Olpinski. Matt started his freelancing career kind of by accident, he was building websites for friends and family and one day realized that he was doing the work of a freelancer. And he realized that it was a life that he really enjoyed, and he wanted to grow into it more. So he started selling his freelance services, or as he puts it, quote, 'operating as a freelancer'. And the rest, as they say, is history. And that's where we spend most of our time on this episode, it's talking about what it looks like to operate as a freelancer, We cover about the journey from taking his work from being a side hustle to being a full time job, all while having a safety net of a consistent income before we made the big leap. And also a bit switching into the mindset of being a professional freelancer, and what that looked like when he started pitching this to his clients. Matt has also successfully transitioned from being a freelancer into running an agency. And we talked about the reasoning behind that, and what it's taken to get that up and running. Lastly, as if Matt wasn't busy enough, he launched an awesome freelance community called the freelance Institute, when he saw that the help he was providing to individual freelancers could be amplified within a community setting. This is a great episode. And Matt is very generous and shares a ton of great insights for freelancers. So please do enjoy this episode with Matt Olpinski. So Matt Olpinski, first of all, thank you very, very much for taking the time to be here with us today.
Matt Olpinski 02:20
Of course, thanks for having me.
Conor McCarthy 02:21
So do you want to go back in time and tell us about how you got started in business?
Matt Olpinski 02:26
Yeah, I'd love to. Um, so when I first started freelancing, I didn't know that I was freelancing. It sort of started by accident, I was a freshman in college. And I had a friend who was in my major, and he was doing work on the side. So basically, I saw people paying him the different different companies paying him to create websites, which is kind of what we were in school for. So I was like, well, that's great to get paid for what you're learning to do in school while you're in school. So I was like, let's, you know, that'd be great. So we started doing that together. And my first time clients were really, from my personal network, people that I knew, those are my, my personal first 10 clients were just people that I knew it was a nonprofit organization that gave me a college grant, a lawyer, like a family lawyer, that my mom, you know, recommended. All very personal, personal, you know, connections, and then also projects that I had kind of working with that friend, during like, kind of, you know, freshman year of college. So those were, those are my first first time clients all came from pretty much word of mouth and direct network referrals.
Conor McCarthy 03:40
Okay, yeah. Sounds like some kind of low hanging fruit as if they were they're almost waiting to have the websites built.
Matt Olpinski 03:45
Yeah, exactly.
Conor McCarthy 03:46
So what was your main learning in that time about either the kind of the business of creating websites or the business of being a business person, if you know what I mean?
Matt Olpinski 03:55
I didn't know that I was even being a business person. The concept of the concept of, of the business of freelancing never really even crossed my mind. It was like, I know, I know how to do and it's funny, because I was actually still learning how to do it. Right. I was early in college. So this is my first experience, even doing websites, you know, designing websites, building websites. And what I realized early on was that when I was in college for design, not not development, so what I learned early on was that when someone asked for a website, they didn't want Photoshop files, they wanted a working website. So I learned how to code and started coding these, you know, simple marketing websites. I didn't know they were simple at the time, because again, I was very early on, but these very simple marketing sites and people were paying me to do it. And I didn't really think much beyond that. I don't even I don't even really remember the word freelancing really coming up much in any of the conversations that I had spread to mine, or in any of the conversations that I was having, you know, outside of that. So I didn't even really understand what I was doing. It was just like people were willing to paying money to have websites and I was willing to do them. And that was money I could make in school without having to have like an on campus job or something. So that was how it all got started. And I never really thought much beyond that. And I never even once I realized that I was freelancing, you know, years down the road, that it never even occurred to me that that's what I wanted to do full time, my trajectory in college was still to, you know, graduate, get a full time job at some design agency, and work there full time. And if I if I wanted to still freelance On nights and weekends for, you know, extra money, but that was that was the extent of it. So we can get more into the transition of how I became a full time freelancer. But that's that's sort of how that happened in the beginning.
Conor McCarthy 05:42
Okay. So interesting, because, you know, so I get the impression you did this for a number of years, you just basically, you, quote, unquote, did the work you just that was it, you did it, there was no kind of tag or label of Freelancer? But was there was there a moment where you said, I'm gonna wrap this at a freelance package and sell it officially?
Matt Olpinski 06:00
Yes, there was a moment, because that was pretty much the same moment that I went into freelancing full time. So I was doing freelancing all through college on the side nights and weekends, graduated, got my, you know, expected job at a design agency, and worked there for three and a half years, and was still doing freelance work on nights and weekends, because I really enjoyed it. And it was extra money. And, you know, why not? I was getting better at it. And I had the time to do it. So I figured, you know, why not. And then there came a point where, but so I want to add on to that a little bit, what what college what college design teaches you is to have a portfolio website, right, have a portfolio website, so that you can get in front of design agencies so that they can evaluate your work so that you can get hired. And then once you get hired, that's kind of it. So you're not you're not really taught to have a business website, or, or a marketing website, you're taught to have a portfolio site where you display your work, and the strategy behind those two things is pretty different. So up until I was well into my job at a design agency, I still just had a portfolio website and never clicked that I needed to transition, how I positioned myself on the website. So once that clicked, the types of freelance projects I was getting, were that shifted, they were bigger, they were better. And I was positioning myself more as a freelancer and a business. And I was operating a little bit more that way as well. And that sort of propelled me into a scenario where it was feasible for me to go full time freelancing. And it caused me to realize that maybe there's maybe there's more to this, like, maybe this can be more lucrative. Maybe I'll enjoy this more. And that was really the point where I said, Okay, like, now that I have this, this website as like the foundation of my career, that was what I used to sort of go, you know, full time freelance, so Okay,
Conor McCarthy 07:58
okay, right. And so the first thing you said in there, like use the phrase operating as a freelancer, what was there anything about that, that you can tell us more about?
Matt Olpinski 08:09
I think it was, it was mostly a mindset shift, more than anything, it was, it was the way that I communicated with clients, you know, I was treating myself and thinking of myself as a business, someone who could deliver value, not someone who could execute tasks. So like, my mindset was, I'm confident that I can do this for you, and it's worth X amount of dollars, versus I'm willing to take any job just to get paid. So So there and again, that was that was a, I want to say quote, unquote, risk that I could take, because I had a full time job, right, there was like, almost no risk. So the whole time, like I got to experiment with, with how I positioned myself and what was working and what wasn't and navigating these, these new conversations and adopting this new mindset. From a business perspective, you know, I was still writing, I was still writing proposals, I was improving my proposals. Most of most of it was just positioning on the marketing side. And the way that I the way that I was handling conversations with with clients just just shifted a little bit and think of when you really get into the nitty gritty, it was more competence, higher rates, being able to stand behind things, being able to communicate value to a client and not just say, you know, when people ask why, you know, why are things this much money? It wasn't? Well, that's the market rate. It was, well, this is this is how it affects your business. And this is why it's worthwhile for your business to be paying this amount of money, because you're going to get something else out of it something greater and value out of it, you know, it's an investment, not an expense. And there was there was that the difference in how I was able to communicate that is really what changed.
Conor McCarthy 09:44
Okay. Right. So, so many interesting facets to that. I mean, would you say the, you know, narrowing in and getting your positioning straight, was that, did you try a couple of different positioning statements for this column, or did you just kind of pick one and run with it?
Matt Olpinski 10:00
I think I tried a few so my my process I guess for updating my website and modifying my website, which again is really has really always been the anchor of my entire career has, well, basically what was going on was i would i would adjust adjust it when I felt like I needed to adjust it, there wasn't really much of a plan, it was kind of like, okay, I've had this tagline up on my homepage for a while now. And I think I found a way to make it better based on what I was learning along the way. So then I would go in and prove it. Or I had a conversation with a client that made me realize I need to be saying X, Y, and Z somewhere on my website instead. So I would just make those changes kind of as I got feedback. So it was like this very iterative thing. It wasn't like, you know, I had one big moment where I just realized everything needed to change. And I nailed it and got it right. And everything was better. From there. It was just sort of like experimenting. And I tried not to change it too often. Because I you know, obviously you need to give it time to succeed or fail. But yeah, there definitely went through a few different, you know, titles and taglines and things like that, you know.
Conor McCarthy 11:10
So apart from doing the actual work and getting feedback from clients, and actually putting their feedback to use? Were there any websites or books or resources that you used to upskill yourself as a freelancer?
Matt Olpinski 11:24
Yes, one of the resources that was very impactful for me that really made a big difference for me was, I think it was called the blueprint by Brendan Dunn with Double Your Freelancing. So the Brendon and Double Your Freelancing was really like that lightbulb moment for me that was like, wow, like, I read, I read that book, the blueprint, and it really changed my perspective on on positioning, it was like, you know, the clients investing in me versus, you know, just looking at my work as an expense, being more confident, providing value, all of those, all of those things like and once that that moment happened, once that kind of clicked in my head, I was able to run with it, you know, more or less on my own. But that was that was definitely a resource that completely changed the way I thought about my positioning and how I treated myself operating as a business and, and all that great stuff.
Conor McCarthy 12:20
Okay, really interesting. Yeah, because the positioning, I mean, you deal a lot now with freelancers and positioning must come up a lot. Are there any other kind of buckets that come up that you you had to figure out yourself that, you know, give advice on?
Matt Olpinski 12:35
Oh, man, um, you know, I don't know if I have any, any one bucket per se, in particular, I think it's more like, everyone's got a different opinion on things. So like, a lot of people will tell you like, the best thing you can do is like niche down and be more specific, right be like that's, that's the the general generally accepted advice is like, Be as specific as you possibly can be about what you offer and who you offer it to. And for me, what always seemed to work really well was being a little bit more, a little bit more generic. And I've gotten a little more specific over the years, but it was basically like, I'm a UI, UX designer for web and mobile, and I can design and develop really good websites. And I know, the UX side, and I know, the UI side. And I can also code them as well. So you know, bonus for you clients. I can all you don't have to go hire a developer. So that and that always worked for me. So for me, that worked. I don't know if that would be necessarily advice that I would give to other people saying that this will also work for you. But so I think when I have these conversations with people, I try not to be too prescriptive with, with what I'm what I'm saying, and and sort of learn about their specific situation and what may or may not work for them. Because it may be different than what works for me.
Conor McCarthy 13:52
Okay gotcha. And was there a moment? I mean, it sounds like you, you had a steady stream of work coming in. And then suppose you got into the, quote, operating as a freelancer mode. Was there a moment where you had to take on people to help you do the work?
Matt Olpinski 14:07
I'm only getting into that more recently.
Conor McCarthy 14:09
Okay, what's that like?
Matt Olpinski 14:11
Yeah, so the so the timeline on that was in 2015, I went full time freelance. And I wouldn't necessarily say that the work was that the new work coming in was steady, what the actually the main way that I sustained myself for the first couple years was through a really long term, like retainer agreements. So I would work with one client 20 hours a week for six months, and then we renewed that contract for another six months, and then another six months after that, and then I have a different client, or a couple different clients that were fixed projects that were shorter, shorter term, kind of alongside that and like the other 20 hours a week. And then once that long term contract ended, I ended up having another one with a different client that ended up being renewed for like three years. So it was it was, you know, an in between, I wouldn't say that the the additional work coming in wasn't necessarily steady. But I did have at least one thing that grounded me along the way financially. So that there was there was some steady income in that regard. But the the steady influx of new work, you know that I don't know if it was necessarily a steady influx of new work. And then in 2018, I repositioned again into a small agency versus a freelancer. So my freelancing site became a blog and a resource center for freelancers. And I have a separate site now for my company. And that has further helped me grow and expand and take on even bigger projects where I can subcontract parts of it and it sets a different expectation with the client. When I feel like when clients work with a freelancer, they're expecting to work with a freelancer and not to have the freelancers subcontracted to other freelancers, when you have a company or a small agency, the expectation is that you're not going to be the only one working on this, I'm expecting that there's probably more people involved. And I'm okay with that. So and that's, that's really what I wanted to start getting towards. So that was one of the big reasons why I shifted to a company versus freelancing.
Conor McCarthy 16:08
That's yeah, that is really interesting and makes a lot of sense. From the client perspective. I was it was it uh, how was it transitioning from I do all the work to I outsource right delegate or I share the work.
Matt Olpinski 16:19
It's been slow, slow, for a couple reasons. One, one, because I am sort of at that that point right now where I don't have so much work coming in that I can like, constantly be delegating to other people, there's seasons where I'll have enough time to do all the work. And then other seasons where I might need to hire one or two people for miscellaneous projects, and then a different project, that'll be like 12 months long, and I need I need to subcontract someone for like a year. And so it's been partly that. And it's also been partly that, I'm just so used to doing all the work. It's been hard, it's hard to trust other people completely sometimes. So I'm still learning how to, to how to do that effectively, and how to grow and how to scale and I'm also wrestling with what direction I even want to take the company, you know, do I want to eventually be hiring people full time? Do I want to just keep it, you know, kind of where it is now? And maybe just subcontract more, but then do I get into like a managerial role where I'm not doing as much work? And I'm just sort of managing things? And is that really where I want to go? So I'm just sort of trying to navigate, you know, what, what direction I want to go. And until I have a more clear vision on what that is, I'm just kind of taking it one day at a time.
Conor McCarthy 17:35
Okay, interesting. Yeah. I hope you are enjoying this episode and that there’s some actionable and insightful advice that you can take to your business. Helping you identify and create those First 10 Customers is what I do, so if you like what you hear on this podcast and want more information, including a bunch of free resources on how to find your first 10 customers and grow your business, check out first10podcast.com or find me on Twitter @TheFirst10Pod. Also, podcast reviews are more valuable than you would realize, and I’d really appreciate if you could take 2 minutes to jump on iTunes and leave a review of the First 10 podcast. Thanks. Now back to the show. I was gonna ask you about like, how do you find good people? And I know you're still on that journey. But do you have any tips for freelancers who are looking to partner or delegate, etc. Any tips on hiring?
Matt Olpinski 18:51
Well, the one the one way that I've been able to do that, as I actually started, I'll plug this real quick because it's it's actually what worked for me I started the community for freelancers, because I run a newsletter and a blog and a lot of people write in and they ask really good questions, and I was answering them. And I was, I found myself wishing that more people could be participating in that conversation and and getting the value from the answers that you know, or the question and answers that were being asked over email kind of privately. I was like, this would be really helpful for other people too. So I started this community and met a whole bunch of really great people through there really talented designers and developers and marketers and copywriters, and people like that. And then a lot of them I've hired maybe like, five or six different people for various projects over the last two or three years from from that group. So I say look for look for communities, online communities for freelancers, online is a great way to network with other people who you know are available for subcontracting or who have projects that they are subcontracting.
Conor McCarthy 19:55
Okay, interesting. Yeah, I mean, let's talk with community for a second because it is I think you've you've done a great service here in taking, what were private communications that were still full value, like real questions that freelancers have, and kind of going. Let's put this out to the world. So, yeah, well, was there again, was there a moment where you said, I'm gonna start a community? And this is what it's gonna look like?
Matt Olpinski 20:14
I think so. Yeah. So there was one conversation in this sort of built up. But there was one one particular moment where I said, okay, I've been answering a lot of emails this week. And there was, I remember, there was one person who emailed me. And she said, I am trying to transition from television production to UX design, What tips do you have? and you know, it's like, that is such a specific thing. Like, there's First of all, there's no way you're gonna find an answer to that on any blog, or anything like that. And, and the transition from one thing to another is so unique for every person, like it's not just a matter of one industry to another. It's, there's all kinds of factors that play into what would make a transition like that successful. And I was like, man, I can give you my best advice. But I really wish there was some other people in this conversation who might be able to weigh in, because I'm just I only have one perspective, when you can ask a question and a whole bunch of people can answer, it's, it's better for you. And we're all communicating with each other. So I said, You know what, I think I think I should start a community for freelancers where we can all talk about stuff like this, and other people can weigh in. And so that was that was when I decided to start, it's called the freelance Institute. That's when I decided to start the freelance Institute. And it started as a slack group. And that went pretty well, for a few years, we recently transitioned to a different platform called circle, which is a little more conducive to the types of conversations things don't get lost as easily. And it's, it's been really nice to have conversations there. So that's sort of where we're at. Yep.
Conor McCarthy 21:44
Yeah, Okay cool, like, the word community, as, as you know, as I see, it's been thrown around a lot at the moment. And and sometimes it can feel like an add on to when you see certain some companies kind of going on this community. What what makes a good community?
Matt Olpinski 22:00
Oh boy, I think I'm still learning that myself. But I can speak to is, you know, obviously, engagement. I mean, you want people to be engaged with each other, you want good conversations, I'd rather have a small community with really good conversations than a big community where people feel lost, and like, no one's really noticing them. So I think I think that's a big part of it. I think the community managers and community leaders like like, prompting conversations and things like that are very helpful, especially for communities like mine, what I can speak to is, I noticed very clearly there was sort of two different types of communities there is individuals like myself, and this was a decision I had to make was, there's communities where an expert will create a community, like you said, as an add on to something else, maybe they have other products that they're selling. And then there's also this private community where you can talk to this person, and everyone joins, hoping to talk to that person, they don't really join, hoping to talk to each other. So So there's that. And then there's other communities that are sort of like independent, were there maybe a few people running it, but it's mostly just everyone gets to connect with each other. And that's really what I wanted to create. I didn't want to create a community where I was basically doing the same thing over, you know, Slack, because I wasn't the email, I wanted to create it. Where people aren't just joining for me, they're joining for community they're joining, to network with other freelancers where I don't necessarily need to be involved every single day for there to be value being provided to the members, you know what I mean? Like there can be conversations happening between people, without me that are that are very valuable. So yeah, that's, that's that's sort of the difference that I observed.
Conor McCarthy 23:40
Yeah, that's really interesting. I heard it described recently as being, you know, an audience. If you think of like an audience at a concert, they're waiting for the main act to show up. And then it's almost like everyone's looking in one direction, they're looking at the main act. But a community is more horizontal, everyone's talking to each other. And it shouldn't lead Matt to show up to, to help people engage.
Matt Olpinski 24:00
Right. And part of that was scalability, like I'm doing a whole bunch of different things, right? Like, I'm running my company, I'm running a newsletter, I'm running a blog. So starting the community, and having everyone looking at me was, you know, not something I thought we could scale very well. Yeah. Like, and there's, you know, once you get, I don't know, I don't know what the number is, but let's say a few 100 people in there, that would be incredibly overwhelming for me to always feel like I have to be in there answering questions. So I decided to go a different route and just create an independent community that I started for freelancers, where you can join and ask questions. That's really the main, the main function of the community and there's lots of topical spaces in there, like getting clients, portfolio websites, financial management, client communication, email communication, all these different topics. And the goal is really to have new freelancers with lots of questions, ask those questions, and get responses from lots of freelancers. It's been really, really valuable. So there's very unique questions that come up. It's not just like how do I get more clients but if you can Tell us more about you specifically, and what's going on in your own career. And we can sort of navigate that, right? There's lots of follow up questions and back and forth. And what I found is that rather than just reading a blog post that may leave you with more questions than answers, you can actually talk to people about your unique situation. It's less generalized advice. And it's much more specific and tailored to you. And that's been really valuable for people. So that's really why I started it, it's not a training platform, it's not, you're not going to get courses and educational content sort of delivered to you on demand, it's going to be more interactive and engaging. And I think that that's something that I certainly wish I had when I was new to freelancing, it's just other freelancers to ask questions to. Because there's so many things you don't know, as a new freelancer, it's like, where do you look? And sure, you can google stuff. But it can be hard to find, you know, even then, what's the right advice? Right? Like, you find three or four different articles that all say different things. So which which one do you follow? So that's, that's really why I started it. So it's a place where freelancers can can learn can learn from one another.
Conor McCarthy 26:07
You pointed out there that you do a lot, do you have systems in place to manage all the different parts of your empire?
Matt Olpinski 26:16
I wish I had something a little more concrete to share. Not Not really, I have I have to do lists and Trello boards, but not much. Not much beyond that. What I what I have sort of observed looking back is what will happen is I'll go through a season where I have, you know, let's say for its for the community, I have a vision for like how I can improve it. And I'll spend a few weeks kind of buckling down and like improving it and doing all the things related to that improvement. And then that'll be done. And then I'll look at my company website and say, oh, there's a whole bunch of stuff I could do over here. And then I'll take a deep dive into that. And then go work on that until that's done. And then I'll look at my blog and my newsletter and say, Oh, well, I haven't worked on that in a while. And then by the time I get done with all those things, I'm back to the communities.
Conor McCarthy 27:00
So it's circular process, circular process,
Matt Olpinski 27:04
That tends to be what happened. I'm not necessarily saying that that's good advice. But that's Yeah, tends to be the pattern.
Conor McCarthy 27:11
There's a kind of an organic kind of go where you're needed aspect to it, which, which I appreciate it like that. And just as a last question, I'd like to ask all my guests, what would you say to someone who's just starting out to find their first 10 customers?
Matt Olpinski 27:25
Well, I can only I can only speak from my personal experience. But I would say leverage your network. I think when I started freelancing, there weren't all these, you know, gig platforms, there was not a lot online available for freelancers, especially in terms of finding new jobs. So I didn't really have a choice but to leverage my own personal network. In fact, there was one summer where my friends and I went door to door, like all the old time like, literally literally walking into businesses and saying, Hey, we do websites, do you need one? Wow. And that did not work, I would not recommend. But we did it. And and it was just that kind of work. It was just making sure that you are being kind to people and meeting people everywhere you go and letting those people know what you do. Like no matter where you go, if you go to like a birthday party, or any kind of any kind of event. I know that's been tougher recently. But any kind of event where you're where you're around other people trying to, you know, work into the conversation, like just letting people know what you do. And and you'd be surprised how far that really goes. letting people know what you do and asking, asking even potentially for work. If my first 10 clients were just sort of word of mouth. Because even if that person you're talking to doesn't need your service directly, they may know someone who does. So your first client could be just one connection away from the people that you're actually talking to. So I you know that that worked really well, for me just starting out. I think everyone nowadays they want to jump on these job board websites. And I think there's a lot of missed opportunity with with personal networks. So I would say just try to like communicate with the people that are around you. And and see what happens. I think there's, there's a lot of opportunity.
Conor McCarthy 29:14
That's, that's really amazing to have. And I think you hit the nail on the head there when you say that, like when you Google the solution or your questions or whatever you do get tons of information. But it could be hard to translate that into your specific situation. Whereas in communities that I'm part of I know it's amazing to reach out to a person who's done it and get a very direct response. And then you're in a proper relationship conversation. So yeah, I'm a big big believer in the power of communities. And yeah, I do suggest listeners, check out the freelancer Institute, because it's full of real people with real, real answers to real questions.
Matt Olpinski 29:50
Yep, exactly.
Conor McCarthy 29:51
Matt, thank you very, very much for taking the time to be with us. You've been very generous and sharing your journey. I know people will be checking out your website. And all the links will be in the show notes, etc. Thank you very much for being on the podcast.
Matt Olpinski 30:04
Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.
