#32 - Jakob Greenfeld of jakobgreenfeld.com
[#32] - Taking shots on goal with Jakob Greenfeld
Indie makers and marketplace shakers, this episode is a must-listen for you! Joining the podcast today is the prolific innovator and creator Jakob Greenfeld. Over the last two years, Jakob has successfully launched over fifteen software products and is the host of The Business Brainstorms podcast and creator of The Opportunities newsletter.
In this episode, we learn about Jakob’s journey from becoming a physicist to testing out the road of entrepreneurship with his bootstrapped products. Jakob gives us great insight into the early days of his workings, framework, and product launching tactics. Jakob also shines a light on taking shots on goal, the importance of authenticity, sharing your origin story and how to increase your business visibility. Key points within this episode include:
An introduction to Jakob Greenfeld.
The importance of hooking customers with your origin story.
Preparation and patience in business.
Building an online audience.
Market response and first product sales.
The downfalls of a product launch.
Why we should never underestimate newsletters.
The benefits of growing a sustainable community.
The power of authenticity and being personable.
Increasing your online visibility.
Jakob’s advice on obtaining your first 10 customers.
‘’In the long term, it all boils down to just putting your brain out there and hoping that like-minded people find you.’’ – Jakob Greenfeld.
Connect with Jakob Greenfeld:
https://twitter.com/jakobgreenfeld
https://businessbrainstorms.com/
https://indieopportunities.com/
Connect with First 10 Podcast host Conor McCarthy:
https://www.first10podcast.com
https://twitter.com/TheFirst10Pod
https://www.linkedin.com/in/comccart/
Resources:
How to be a capitalist without any capital by Nathan Latka
The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don’t Work by Michael E. Gerber
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses
Superfans by Pat Flynn
https://patflynn.com/book/superfans/
Trends.vc Newsletter
Andrew Wilkinson – Co-founder of Tiny
https://twitter.com/awilkinson
Harry Dry – The Kanye Story
Pieter Levels – 12 start ups in 12 months
https://levels.io/12-startups-12-months/
Produced in partnership with podlad.com
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Check out my podcast partners!
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, products, jakob, launch, newsletter, podcast, bootstrap, helps, worked, origin story, talk, subscribers, makers, indie, find, sharing, entrepreneurship, business, idea, twitter
SPEAKERS
Conor McCarthy, Jakob Greenfeld
Jakob Greenfeld 00:02
Just a lens that helps people understand who you are and where you're coming from and what you're doing right. I think these two components helped me that when I then was ready to finally launch my first blog that I charged money for, it actually worked.
Conor McCarthy 00:21
Welcome to the first 10 podcast. I'm your host, Connor McCarthy, and I help people start and grow their businesses. I do that through joint ventures, collaborations, coaching, and online workshops. In each episode of this podcast, I interview business builders of the early days of starting a business, about how they found their first 10 customers and got off the ground so that you can learn what works and what doesn't. Please do check out my website at ConnorMcCarthy.me for more details. My guest today is Jakob Greenfeld. Prolific is not a word I often use to describe founders on this podcast, but it definitely applies here. So as well as creating the opportunities newsletter and hosting the business brainstorms podcast, Jakob has launched 15 + software products over the last two years. And on this episode, he gives us a high level perspective on his journey so far. In particular, he talks about his pivot from a career in theoretical particle physics to launching his own bootstrap MBA, just really to see if entrepreneurship was a thing for him. He talks about the wisdom and taking multiple shots on goal, as well as the power of writing about your origin story as a founder and as a creator. We talked a little bit about the advantage of being in a community when launching products. We talk a lot about sharing by as Jakob says, quote, putting your brain out there, unquote through your work. We talk books, Twitter, had a really quirky way that Jakob has when he goes about promoting his products. So please do enjoy this episode with Jakob Greenfeld, and thank you so much for listening. Jakob, first of all, thank you very, very much for taking the time to be with us here today on the first 10 podcast.
Jakob Greenfeld 01:58
Yeah, thanks for the invitation.
Conor McCarthy 02:01
Do want to give us just a quick 60 or 90 second overview about you and what you do?
Jakob Greenfeld 02:06
Sure. So I studied physics. This is what I did for the past decade. Physicist, I went over the full distance, and the PhD and afterward worked as a researcher for a short period. But I quickly quickly found out that as well does not for me. And yeah, I would not be happy there. Because I saw many examples of people in their 40s Still hopping around trying to secure one of these few permanent positions, which are there. And yeah, it's a tough life. And you're not going to have a lot of fun, because you have to grind, you have to journal these papers and whatever. So I started looking for jobs. Obviously, this is what everyone does. And I went to the recruiting events, the usual recruiting events for people with my background. So I did theoretical physics. And with a background in theoretical physics, there are just a handful of career typical career paths, I would say like consulting, software development, finance. And yeah, went to the events, talk to the people and quickly found out this is not my tribe, this, these are not my people. And, yeah, I mean, they were definitely cool and interesting people. And some of them, some of these people are doing interesting stuff, but it's just not for me. And so I came up with a little plan to try if enterpreneurship could be a good fit for me and I was inspired by Peter levels, 12 startups in 12 months experiment, which he did a few years ago. And I came up with a similar plan for myself that I coined the bootstrap MBA. And my idea was, yeah, I will also give myself 12 months, I will also try to launch 12 products during this time, and then reevaluate, okay, is entrepreneurship for me, is this working? Or was this a stupid idea? And is it time to go back to the recruiting events? And yeah, this is now I think, 16, this was 16 months ago or so when I started. So obviously, I've not stopped. I think it was a very easy decision, because to my surprise, I made enough money to pay for my living expenses already during this first year. Which I really did not expect to happen. And I was fully expecting to lose it all like I saved a little bit of money and I yeah, I expected to lose it all. Like as a as a learning experience and my tuition for my bootstrap MBA in the sense, but no, I was really lucky that one of my first products actually was a commercial success. And I had a few successful products that I still have. And yeah, this is where I currently am. I own a few micro products, whatever you want to call them, like terminologies always difficult. Now them is hockey stick growth startup stuff, but yeah, they are, they're a nice little product that provide value to some people and pay the bills for me.
Conor McCarthy 05:33
Yeah, that is, that is incredible. Thank you for sharing all that. I mean, wow to spend 10 years in physics and being on that, I suppose classic career track, and then to say, no, it's no fun. And it's extremely competitive, I'm going to give entrepreneurship ago is I think a lot of people out there might have this idea, maybe they're working in jobs, kind of going, I wonder could I start my own business or, you know, do something on the side and build it up over time. But you you just jumped right in. But I like how you framed it. You said I'm gonna start a bootstrap MBA, I'm not just gonna have, you know, try a product, try a product and see how it goes. You had a long term, kind of a year, year long goal. Is that correct?
Jakob Greenfeld 06:14
Yeah, absolutely because you never know how the market responds. And like, from studying people who have done similar stuff, it was very obvious that hardly anyone succeeds on the first try in entrepreneurship, right? Most people need many shots on the goal until they find one that is finally a hit. For some it takes just three or five, for some it takes 20. And that's perfectly fine, too. So you're you just have to be prepared to take these shots. And yeah, I like I said, I was surprised that it actually happened for me earlier than I expected. Very happy about that.
Conor McCarthy 06:56
So absolutely. Congratulations again, because I know from personal experience, and I know for looking at the landscape, I mean, you could go on product on tour or or any any website like that. And there's there's a huge graveyard of software products that just never never went anywhere. It never got anywhere. Are there any things that you can point to now, that helped you earn that first bit of income from your products?
Jakob Greenfeld 07:20
Yeah. I think almost accidentally, I did a few things right. And now I understand why they worked. But it was definitely not planned. And one of these things is having having a good origin story is very important. And I, I now observed this pattern many times, if you actually look at successful indie makers, or however you want to call people in, in my little bubble of the internet, many of them have a very convincing origin story that explains where they're coming from what they're doing. And, for example, Harry dry, has his Kanye story, Peter level says is 12 startups in 12 months, and yeah, you can look at actually have a database of, of these origin stories, because I like collecting them and looking at different formats. And I find that just interesting. And I think this is a great way to go from zero to something in terms of having an audience or introducing yourself to this scene online. And also, I did something which is very, very common, which is starting with products. And so before I did my first product that actually charged money for I launched, like free products that were really targeted at the at the maker scene itself, so self referential. And that's also very, very common. And there's nothing wrong about it. And because yeah, it's a good way to introduce yourself and tell the world, at least this little world, hey, here I am. And this is what I'm up to, right. And I think these two components helped me that when I then was ready to finally, finally launch my first blog that I charge money for it actually worked so well, because you know, there is this, there's this bump, or this initial hurdle you need to get over. And if you if you really start at zero and just to try to launch something commercially, it's very, very hard. Unless of course you have a proper marketing budget and know what you're doing. But like in terms of organic, organic traction, it really helps to have at least a few people that are rooting for you, in a sense, and I accomplish this through like my origin store, which in my case was this bootstrap MBA, and it does not have to be anything like this In the past, like my origin story was all about the future, like what I'm going to do. And that was the same was Peter levels, right? And it's just a lens that helps people understand who you are and where you're coming from and what you're doing. Right. and yeah, that's a long answer.
Conor McCarthy 10:19
No, no, that that is an amazing answer. And it's, you know, that there's so much truth in it, because it's like the Simon Sinek Golden Circle, p eople buy from you because of why you do things. So I think it's maybe an overlooked piece of the, of the pie that people, people don't consider enough when they're launching products. Like, what about you? Who are you? What's your backstory? Why are you doing this? Just, it's, it's almost free, when you think about it, to just write up something on your website, just to say, here's why I'm doing this. It's not just, here's the product, and here's what it will do for you. But it's where did this come from? And what are my plans? And, like, I like that, that's, again, I think, that kind of stuff is free, and why not do it. And I think you've done a really good job. And just actually, while while we're on it, your website, I think it's brilliant I before we started recording, I think everyone should check out your website. And I'll include in the show notes, of course, just because you write on a huge variety of topics, like there's everything in there from obviously, from creating products, through to the deep kind of the tech stacks that you use you, you have an amazing article in there actually about choosing technology stacks, that I've referenced a couple of times, looking at different projects. You talk about entrepreneurship, being a creator, you talk a little bit mindset about it's almost philosophical in a way. And I know you say in your website, that these are just kind of trains of thought. But you know, do you find it helpful to kind of process these things on your blog?
Jakob Greenfeld 11:48
Oh yeah, totally. This is why I write. I think it's true. I think brisk when I write, and it's very hard to think properly, without writing, at least for me, so I always need to write and then it's really okay, why not just publish it so that some people could get value out of it. And I actually publish far more, I write from more than I publish, probably ten to one is the ratio or something like that. I have. I have honestly, hundreds of unfinished drafts.
Conor McCarthy 12:19
Wow. Okay, so we're this part of the interview, I realize that haven't asked you about any of the products that you've created? Do you probably have them all, just front of mind? Do you want to talk about just a couple of them? Or do you want to just list them out and talk about one or two?
Jakob Greenfeld 12:36
Yeah, I guess we can just talk about the most interesting ones. Because otherwise, it's maybe going to get a bit boring. Because I actually don't know how many there are, and maybe 16 or so. And my first maybe an interesting story is definitely my first one, the already briefly mentioned, and it's called product Explorer. And it was the first thing I put online were actually charged money for, and I did it accidentally something right? Other than the things I just mentioned, namely, the idea was actually based on, it wasn't my idea. It was actually an idea I heard on a podcast, and I heard an episode of The my first product podcast with Andrew Wilkinson as a guest. And there he mentioned this idea. Funny, which funnily is what you already mentioned before, that there are all these abandoned projects on Product Hunt, right? People launched them. With very, yeah, with, with with a lot of energy, but then it quickly fizzled out, and nothing ever happens. And there are there are many reasons why, right? Why this can happen. Sometimes, it simply was not that good of an idea. But oftentimes, it's also the case that the founder just does not have all the skills that are necessary necessary to grow a product like this. Like, like the easy miss stuff, right? You need to wear all these different hats. And many founders are just very good technically. So developers who just love coding, but they don't know how to create a product marketing plan. So yeah, many factors. And then that can lead to like abandoned products on product on which actually could be valuable if the right kind of person and took them over. So I listened to this, I heard this idea and then built a little database that helps people find these abandoned projects, pretty much and it was not just on product launches, but also for example, Chrome extensions and there you can For example, look at extensions that haven't been updated in a while, right. And this is also a good sign that, that they are the owners maybe not. So very much interested in it. At the same time, I also read Nathan Latka's book, How to be a capitalist without any capital. And he also tells a similar story about how he bought a Chrome extension very cheaply, because the previous owner was no longer really interested in. So this was like another puzzle piece, together with the stuff Andrew Berkowitz and talked about and yeah, I just combined them and built a very, very simple website with Gumroad checkout form. And the data was all in our table. So as simple as it gets, and by the , I think, an early bird offer, which was really cheap. And you'll get like 90 days of access, and it does not repeat, like you don't have to cancel your subscription or anything. And actually, the count, remember, maybe 20 bucks or so it's what I charged. And I said, Okay, 100 of these is what I'm offering. And yeah, they've they actually sold out. And that was a huge surprise. And the smart thing I did was that I gave credit where credit is due like I talked about various ideas coming from that I got it from Andrew Wilkinson and Nathan Latka. And at the time, this was not a hack at all right? It was just me being honest that this is the average ideas coming from. Yeah, and now learn that this is maybe obviously a smart, smart way to get some attention because I got retweets from both of them. And both have huge Twitter followings so this really also helps to amplify on launch day.
Conor McCarthy 17:08
Yeah, I bet. I know them both. Yeah, they do have quite big Twitter followings. But that's, that's, I think I remember that episode where he said that. And but I love that you took it one step or 10 steps further, and actually went and created the products. You know that there is a sales and marketing component to all these products, especially the ones where you've actually made sales. Do you? How do you think about sales and marketing when you go into these?
Jakob Greenfeld 17:37
So far, I don't think about sales, the whole process, right? I'm not doing any sales. And I like to keep things low touch for me. At least and this, this has worked at least for the products I've worked with so far. But yeah, marketing, obviously, I think there's the step zero is obviously validating, right if you're already if you have any kind of value per product attend. And this is what the launch is for. And this is where it really helps to help to have some kind of audience whether it's on Twitter, or a personnalised newsletter, right? And which is what I'm now using, right. And this is where typically the first first customers are coming from. Like, I'm just mentioning it on my personal email newsletter on Twitter, and I launch on Product Hunt, for example. And then I quickly, quickly learn if this is valuable to some people, right? And obviously, this is just where the fun begins. But it's yes, step zero. And then step one is growing it sustainably in a sustainable way. And honestly, this is something I'm still doing right and I'm, I'm I did some experiments and have a few ideas, but I'm definitely not an expert. When it comes to this additional stages, further stages of growth. And for example, one thing I discovered, for me that's working very, very well is newsletter. And it's it's I think, super interesting channel because it's not a very efficient channel. If you compare it if you compare it for example, to Google ads, or Facebook ads or stuff like that, it's these are very efficient marketplaces. And you get what you put in right. It's it's almost impossible, I would say to find any real bargains, right? Like the most valuable keywords on Google, you have to pay a lot of money to have your ad on there. But with a newsletter, with newsletters, it doesn't work that way, and there are two sides to it. And one side is definitely like, I would say that 50% of all newsletter ads are completely overpriced, then like the pricing makes absolutely no sense. And I've seen so many of them like people with, I don't know, 1000 - 5000 subscribers, charging hundreds of dollars for a little ad and then newsletter. And if you do the math, it simply does not make any sense at all. And at the but at the same time, you can find, you know, really incredible bargains where you're paying 60 bucks, and you get an incredible return of investment, I have really had 10x ROI in some in some cases. And so like I said, I'm not an expert, but I've seen some, some first glimpses that this is working. And I'm, I definitely want to explore it more. But a problem is that it's because it's an inefficient market, it takes time to actually find these good offers, right? You cannot just click a button and it's working. And you have of course, some newsletter at marketplaces. But all the newsletters listed there, in my experience tend to be overpriced. So you really have to find these off market deals and just reach out to people talk to them. And what it was cost to get a shout out, almost like influencer marketing. Yeah. And I guess it's similar, but there are real bargains to be found in these inefficient ecosystems. And yeah, I feel like someone, someone like me has a real advantage here. Because I can look at least like these tiny newsletters, which can make sense for me. But like a company like Nike or whatever, would never sponsor a newsletter with 5000 subscribers, right? They don't care. They may be sponsored the hustle or morning group with millions of subscribers.
Conor McCarthy 22:01
Yeah, I like that. That is Yeah, no, that makes complete sense. And, of course, there's work in that. But there are returns and and I think, yeah, you're right, the efficient market of digital ads means you have zero advantage unless you've got a Nike size budget. So but what you do have is maybe a bit more time to sit down and develop relationships. And I think that's smart. I like that. I hope you're enjoying this episode, and that there's some actionable and insightful advice that you can take out to your business, helping you identify and create those first 10 customers is what I do. So if you like what you hear on this podcast and want more information, including a bunch of free resources on how to find your first 10 customers and grow your business, check out first10podcast.com. That's 10 One, zero, or find me on Twitter @thefirst10pod. Now, you probably hear what I'm about to say on every podcast you listen to and it makes a really big difference to the show. If you find this podcast in any way useful or enjoyable, I'd be so grateful if you left me a review on iTunes, it really does make a big difference in terms of other people discovering the podcast. Also, if you leave a review, you will get to see your name and the review. In lights. What I'll do is I'll design your words and post them online, tagging you and your project along with it. I know it's a pretty sweet deal. Okay, let's get on with the show. You mentioned a couple of books you mentioned the Nathan Latka book and the E Myth. Are there other books that you regard as being important reads for everything you've done?
Jakob Greenfeld 23:31
Just a random example because I'm reading it right now and this is how it usually works I guess, once I get started it's on my mind. It is Superfans by Pat Flynn, like the Smart Passive Income guy. And I was actually surprised that it's, it's very good, in my opinion, or it's at least much, much better than I expected. I don't know why I thought it would not be very good, but it is it is very good. And yeah, I guess my impression was that Pat is yeah, just just focusing right on the on selling stuff to his audience and not really doing anything anymore. Right, like real enterpreneurship whatever, whatever you want to call it. But the book is about various names such as Superfriends how you turn strangers into subscribers and eventually into superfans, and he has a few very cool ideas and shares tactics how how he does what he does, and obviously this is something he's very good at right. He built a huge audience and does a very good job at building a loyal base of super fans. S o and there are I mean, there are tiny things like sharing stuff with your audience, you usually would only share with good friends. Right? And I mean, this is something that most people do not do. Like automatically organically, because, we all have the impression we need to, we need to play a role, right? We need to project some kind of image online and need to be professional and whatever. And but then if you if you read his explanations actually makes a ton of sense. And you'll see that all the the big players, I would say are using this trick, and because obviously, if you're talking to people like they are your friend, then they will put you right in a different box than if you're just some guy preaching. Right. It's a cool way to talk about your weird obsessions. And it can actually make sense, right? Yeah, or just just they're sharing trivial stuff. And I think that that was interesting.
Conor McCarthy 26:04
Yeah, no, that's fascinating. It ties into what we were saying earlier about, you know, your your backstory or your why. And, like, closing the distance between you and your audience is important that you understand your motives and what you're trying to do. And, you know, people I will say to people, that I that I talked to who are launching your business, like, in general, people want to help, like people really, if they see you trying to do something, they will want to help now, the the dark side of that is that they may, they may lie to you and tell you your product is brilliant, and you should definitely spend all your time and money developing it. Again, because they don't you know, they don't want to tell you that maybe it's not for them. So you have to be kind of careful of that as well. But it's Yeah, I think I think it's maybe hidden in plain sight advantage that that creators have is that people genuinely want to help. Are there other people in your life who have helped you get your first 10 customers for any of your projects,
Jakob Greenfeld 27:01
Obviously, like I mentioned, Andrew Wilkinson and Nathan Latka, becuase they retweeted my launch tweet, yeah and that that really helped. But also, I think when I, when I really started at zero, I really started at zero, 1 and a half year ago, in terms of Twitter followers, new styles of privates, revenue, everything. And I got my first 100 or 200 subscribers, because arbit called actually retweeted my blog post, my Bootstrap, MBA blog post, so I was really thankful for that. Yeah, it really helped. And had me in many, many, many, many similar cool stories. For example, Dru Riley, who runs trends.vc newsletter, and he actually reached out to me and my products, product Explorer was the first, he did like as a sponsored post in his newsletter.
Conor McCarthy 28:08
Oh, cool.
Jakob Greenfeld 28:09
Which is yeah, incredible, right? Yeah. You're, You're always have like a seperation with with any kind of ad format. And if it's the first of its kind, it's of course, working. Very, very good, but also he had a very good audience and at the time, I think 10,000 or so subscribers, and that obviously helped.
Conor McCarthy 28:31
Yeah. There's some there's some big names to get behind. Yeah. I like that. A lot of people listen to this podcast, obviously, they're, they're either thinking of starting a new side hustle or a new main business. Or maybe they're in it at the moment trying to find their first 10 customers. Do you have any advice to give to people who are who are trying to find those first 10 customers right now?
Jakob Greenfeld 28:52
In the world, I'm coming from like, Bootstrap, Entretrapreneurs, indie makers. I think it really, really helps, as I mentioned, to, to put your brain out there and to make yourself visible in whatever format suits you best. But I think Twitter is by far the easiest platform to go from zero to something, if you compare it for example, with podcasts or YouTube. They are notoriously hard right to to get off the ground. Whereas on Twitter, you just need one retweet from someone and it doesn't even have to be someone very famous, but just someone a little with a with some following. And you're already Yeah, you're getting off the ground. Right. And this just doesn't happen with podcasts or on YouTube. So yeah, like I said, having an origin story. And then putting, putting your brain out there telling people what, who you are what you are about and and sharing everything you'll learn. And it maybe sounds a bit shady. But the the correct way, I think, to think about it is that if you're if you're an indie maker, you obviously can't spend a lot of money on ads. So what is your unfair advantage, right? And your unfair advantage is this community we have online, this cosy little village of other indie makers. And it, it really, really helps if you have people rooting for you, right? If you really have this community of people wanting you to succeed. And there are many examples of people who are doing a very, very good job at this. And yeah, leveraging, at least if you're in this world of indie makers, if you want to play this game, then I would say, yeah, thinking in terms of having people root for you. And it doesn't have to be very tactical. But you can phrase it in other ways, right? You can just straight yeah, just be helpful, right? Just be authentic, and share what you'll learn. And this is how you eventually build like, I think following always sounds strange, but like a group of people that are rooting for you. And they just yeah, when you're announcing, hey, and testing something, I'm looking for beta testers, or I'm I'm launching today, they just automatically click that like button, right? Just because they want to see you succeed. And they are I don't think there is okay, probably there are some hacks you can you can try to do that. But in, in the long term, it all boils down to just putting your brain out there and hoping that like minded people find you so and realizing that this is the unfair advantage we have as indie makers sitting in the middle of nowhere.
Conor McCarthy 32:12
Yes, you're all in the same kind of nowhere boat together, which is yeah, that's, that's great. I think, putting your brain out there. I love that. I love that phrase. And yeah, just looking around, there are so many people that you know, and don't know who aren't in that same boat and to, to leverage that. That fact, I think, yeah, that's really important. What is coming up next for you. So you just launched products? Pretty quick, you have the idea, you're able to code it up and get it out there. So do you have anything in the pipeline that you can talk about?
Jakob Greenfeld 32:41
Oh, yeah, many. I actually have like five products I want to launch in the next few months. And they are all yeah, tiny, tiny projects, but where I think they are solving a real, real problem. And one of them is just a spin off of one of my existing products. And I tried to make it part of it, but it didn't really work out the way I wanted it. And the product is under the radar. It's a trend with signal detection service if you want. And currently, it's just a database of trend signals. But my idea is to turn this into a profit tool, because I think my, the technology I built is far too good to just do it that way. So I actually want to give people access to it and allow them to use it in whatever way they want. So just to give one example, I want to work on is, say someone has an ecommerce store that sells camping equipment, I run these kind of people, though, they can just enter like the keywords they're interested in and the pages that they are interested in. And then they are monitoring. And it automatically the algorithm is monitoring, like new trends that are popping up in that space. And that's my idea of how I want to turn under the radar or like, like, one feature I had planned for it into her into assess, and like that little software tool. And another thing where I'm thinking about for example, I actually built an use API, and I built it for a friend and we already talked about him before the recording started, I coded a new API just for him. And if you do some research, there are already 1000s of newest API's. But turns out that they are all missing a few essential features, at least for the use case Ryan has. So maybe other people have have the same need. Like the API is already working, it's online, but it currently has only one user. Ryan! And that's fine, right? And just need to, to put some stuff around it and then launch it. But it's definitely on the, on the roadmap to do something with it. And yeah, there are, there's another idea that I'm, that I'm working on right now. And it's, it's, I just coded it before we, before we started talking actually. And because it's it's solving a problem I'm having myself, but I've also seen in a startup I've helped with, is when you have an email list, a subscriber list, or also a user list, and finding your male most valuable subscribers is obviously something valuable, right? If I can look at my email list and find out oh, this guy actually has 20k followers on Twitter, or 100K followers on YouTube, I should probably reach out to him and say hi, or this is a really famous VC guy, whatever. And it really helps to, to, to notice, and just to maybe just to talk to them, but maybe also to establish some kind of partnerships. Because it's obviously far more effective to talk, yeah, to get a shout out from someone who's really using their product and just approaching strangers and bribing them to give. So you're building a tool, and there are solutions. But they they they are coming from different world, I would say different industry. So they are approaching that same problem in a different way. And they are very expensive, where you are uploading, like your email list, and you get a bunch of information on the people on it. And I've at least the solutions I found so far, it didn't really solve the problem for me. And also for the startup I've, I, I helped us. So I thought I can I can solve that. And I recorded it and it's working. So I already found good stuff.I will make it available. Let's see if anyone else finds value in that. And I yeah, I want to keep it really, really minimal. Again, just to validate it, I would really just put up a Gumroad payment form, and then have a table form for where people can enter the information. And let's see if I can get customers but I'm very optimistic. Yeah, that's because it's solving a problem for myself.
Conor McCarthy 37:50
Always a good place to start, solve your own problems! Jakob, you're absolute machine, good for you. You're able to see something, think about it and then just start building it. So you can show people and get some validation and I appreciate that. That's pretty amazing. Thank you very much for your time today. I look, I'm going to link to all your, your website and your you've got a podcast called the Business brainstorms podcast, sorry, that people should check out as well. And you've got a newsletter and all that good stuff. So I'm going to link to that in the newsletter. Is there anything else you'd like to say before we wrap up?
Jakob Greenfeld 38:28
No, perfect. Thanks a lot for the invitation. That was really fun.