Episode #3 - Carla Bredin on tough-to-hear but valuable feedback, and trusting people with your story.

Show Notes

On this episode of The First 10 Podcast, I talk to Carla Bredin,  Founder of boutique spin studio Echelon and Wild Healthy Nutrition.

Key Points

1. Feedback can be tough but valuable

2. Who can I trust with my story to share with their people?

3. Divert all your energy to those who are excited and want to engage with it

Show Notes
Echelon
Wild Healthy
Bernadette Jiwa: Storydriven, Marketing a Love story
Seth Godin's Akimbo Podcast

Contact Details
Instagram
LinkedIn

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Transcription

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, business, echelon, studio, opened, experience, dublin, classes, building, story, writers, listening, boutique, strategy, budget, conversations, customers, launched, early days, friend

SPEAKERS Conor McCarthy, Carla Bredin

Conor McCarthy  00:00

Hi there first 10 podcast listeners. I'm here today with Karla Breeden. And just as a quick note, we were just chatting before the podcast about our history together. And I was lucky enough to be Carla's coach over the years as she launched her most recent enterprise Echelon. And, and even previously to that we had lots of discussions around her other successful business wild healthy. And so I think we'll get into a bit of both of those today. But it's great to be talking to someone that, as you pointed out, Carla, that I was there for a lot of the first 10 parts for you. And so yeah, it's exciting to get into that. So, enough for me, do you want to tell us a little bit about your business story so far? what you're working on now?

Carla Bredin  00:45

Sure. Thanks, Connor. Yeah, so I have two businesses that have kind of the first one is I launched in 2014. And the second one, I officially launched last year, but it was probably in the works from back then as well, so and so wild, healthy is my nutrition business. I'm a registered nutritionist, and I am in clinical practice. So that's what I've been doing. As my job for the last six years, and then Echelon is an indoor cycling studio that I opened the doors to last September. And no, you know, because you were there, it was years and years of grind work before get the doors open, in 2019. So it was a long slog, and it feels while I've only kind of technically been trading for just over a year, I've been in it for you know, the, I'd say the guts of about eight years, since I first decided to look into this and go for it.

Conor McCarthy  02:10

Well, that's, uh, yeah, I mean, there's, there's so many kind of, as well as new businesses that people seem to throw together in a matter of weeks or months. But I think the, the stories that are really interesting are the ones that have been created as a seed in someone's mind. And then over time, that kind of momentum builds, and then then they launch something. And so yeah, so to two different but related businesses, I would say, yeah, I think they they complement each other really well. And a lot of the a lot of the clientele would be interested in the other business. So and that is there, there was a lot of overlap in the early days of relationships, I'd belt and you know, corporate speaking gigs I've been doing and had started talking about this new business, this indoor cycling studio that I was going to be opening. And then likewise, when I was teaching spin in a different studio, a lot of people would come to me for sports nutrition advice. So there was like a natural overlap. And I think that was where I centred my my position was in that kind of health, fitness, wellness seen and Dublin

Conor McCarthy  03:39

When you were launching Echelon, and there was people coming to you, who I suppose there were those overlap clients, you might say between Wildhealthy and Echelon. And were you able to kind of go right, I definitely have a number of people who will be very interested in Echelon.

Carla Bredin  03:59

Yeah, I. So I have been a spin instructor since 2015. So I had been teaching at another studio. And was very much building relationships with the the writers that were coming to that studio. And some of the writers would just go to the studio because they wanted their work. It didn't matter who they were going to it didn't matter if it was subbed, different teachers, whatever they were there to set time, every time every week. But it became clear that a lot of the writers were coming exclusively to my classes and no other classes. And so those writers Why, why? being very careful about the concept of poaching and of stealing clients from a business. It was quite clear to me that they were there because of me. And they were interested in the form of fitness that I was providing. And so I didn't know that there would be a few from there that would be interested in this new place in the city centre. And was really, really clear that a lot of the writers would not leave that studio because of convenience, location and price. And while I was kind of building the groundwork for what Echelon would look like, and how to price it, that was also a really, really obvious point that there were just some writers that wouldn't engage with, with the experience that I was going to be bringing in the city centre, which was kind of a boutique exclusive, higher end version of the experience and total. So it's not just the workouts that we have at Echelon, it's the whole experience.

Conor McCarthy  06:12

And it is, like you spent so long, we had many, many conversations talking about that experience, like your mind, and and your heart was totally in the right place, when you were, I suppose, envisioning what Echelon was going to be. And just just the very, very core of it was was all about that experience, you really, you put a lot of emphasis on it.

Carla Bredin  06:34

I did and, and, you know, this was born out of my experience of when I would go to the states and go to, and they're kind of original boutique indoor cycling studios that that popped up in New York in particular. So I would go there, and it would just, obviously, I was on holidays anytime I was there, but I could spend like two hours in the studio. Like, I go there early. Like, I remember going to one studio with my case, and the concierge service was just so it was it was so excellent. So they looked after my suitcase, because it wouldn't fit in the little lockers. They were like, would you like to shower before your class, you're more than welcome to if you've just got off a flight. And then you would do your class, you would get your title and your water and your shoes. And then you would share afterwards with these fantastic products. And, you know, people when you when you signed up, and people would call you by your name, you know, it was just such a wonderful experience. And it was always something that I wanted to bring here because it just, you know, that experience did not exist in Dublin two years ago, it just didn't. And I have a lot of friends in the industry who have since opened pelada Studios and yoga studios, and that boutique experience is expanding here. But it just, you know, back when I made the decision to do this, it was just such a new thing to do. So that was a bit scary because to offer that level of of experience, it costs money and so the price point was going to be much much higher than just a regular gym membership.

Conor McCarthy  08:38

Hmm. And how did you go about figuring that out on a more kind of practical level? You know, you you had a kind of a wish list I guess you know, you want people to feel a certain way or to experience certain things when they're in the building so that means you need to have X, Y and Z provided and then when you're putting together your your fight your finances basically your your budget for everything. Was there. Was there a lot of kind of, I suppose was was there tension around? How much can I charge here versus what am i offering? How did you navigate that?

Carla Bredin  09:12

Yeah, for sure. And it's funny because some of my closest people like one of my best friends, I remember having the conversation with her being like, this is not a place that you would go to because that kind of value cost conversation was just not on her radar and and to expand that it like Echelon is essentially a spin class. And spin classes are free as part of gym memberships. So like to to charge a premium price for something that people in their mind think about as a free service. That's kind of Just go hard and go home experience that they either like or don't like. It was, it was telling a brand new story, a bite that experience and then yeah, pricing that accordingly. So the fact that you get your titles and your specialist cycling shoes and your filtered water and your luxury Shire products and all these additional little touch points, it all adds up to a certain price point. And luckily, you know, Dublin by the time we eventually opened at, there were a couple of boutique studios in the city centre that had opened up as well, like polarities and sweat studios. So they had also set a price that was more in line with that boutique experience. So it was a little easier when the time actually came to, you know, to open up the studio and have people buy the credits.

Conor McCarthy  11:16

Yeah. This is it. Like you, you're cognizant of the fact that some people will look at a salon and say, No, no, oh, yeah, I want this other spin. Experience. How does? How does that make you feel?

Carla Bredin  11:31

I love that. So I again, I still have this voice note on my phone, because it stopped me in my tracks I was listening to and akimbo. And I was I walk in and I stopped. And I pressed stop on the podcast, and then open my voice memo and repeated what Seth had said. And he said, I made this, and it might not be for you. And I just I remember it like oh my god, this is just this is the crux of putting yourself out into the world, whatever it is that you're doing. And so that just went through my head every day, every time I'd interact with people, I made this and it might not be for you. And to be okay with that was really important to me. And when we actually opened, I would, you know, that nervousness of like, Oh, god, they're here, will they enjoy it, and actively seeing when someone loved it. And when someone was kind of, I don't think this is for me. And to and to be grateful for both those things, because the people who it's not for, like if if if you can not waste your energy on them, because they will exist, it'll not be for them. And to divert all your energy towards the people that you know, are ns are excited about us and want to engage with it. So that was a, that was a massive kind of learning moment for me. In the early stages of setting up the business, like there are people who are just not going to be into this. I think it's really freeing.

Conor McCarthy  13:42

I totally agree. And it's just the way you you lit up telling that story right on your own making that voice note because Yeah, what must have been such a load off to kind of go, Oh, I don't need everyone. I don't need to even need everyone who's into spin.

Carla Bredin  13:59

Right? And, like I, in thinking about who my audience was going to be like, I made all these assumptions in the early days, because of course, I don't know. Like, it's, it's never been done in Dublin. So how do you know? So I was kind of just making assumptions of like, Who is this for? Who is going to? Who is going to want this experience? How is this experience going to fill a gap in someone's life and that was kind of the way I looked at it. And since we've opened the doors, the people like there were people I assumed would just jump all over it and haven't and that's okay. And then we took that information and we slowly started to even change the offering and change the message in a little bit. So that was that was really fun. And as well to be like, Oh, I think you'll love this, and then seeing that they didn't and be okay with that as well. And I'm specifically talking here about triathletes like that was the big. I was like, Oh my god, the triathletes of Dublin, they are going to love because you know, what we had set up with the bikes and with the data and the metrics and coach by colour and training zones, and all those things that we set up before it before anyone had come in the door, do you know we had it, we decided that that was going to be one of multiple offerings. And they just never came. They never came. And so we became a slightly different studio within like, within three months, we had changed our direction a little bit. And that's such a gift as a business owner.

Conor McCarthy  16:04

Yes, I couldn't agree more, I'm so glad you're telling these stories, because there's a kind of, there's a weight or something that you might inadvertently bring to a new business where it's like, I have to get these people, the triathletes, like, I'm gonna focus on the triathletes. And if they said, No, you might have doubled down on the triathletes and said, No, no, I'm doing something right. And almost beating yourself up about it. But to be able to kind of go, Oh, that's interesting. It's not for them. But it is for these people over here who absolutely love it. And, and again, you you've done your songs, so you knew how many people you needed, and all that kind of stuff, then you're at the stage of now, now I get to delight. Now I get to really provide an amazing experience.

Carla Bredin  16:47

Exactly, yeah. And that, that was a big thing for me in the early days was the number 50. So I was like, if I can get 50 people a day, between our morning classes, and our lunchtime classes and our evening classes, if I can just get 50 people in those doors, then this is a viable business. And this is gonna, this is going to work. And I remember the first day, well, it wasn't the first day we got 47 writers and sometimes so we opened in September, and I think it was sometime in late October. We had 47 writers by close of business, and I was just like, this, is it. This is it.

Conor McCarthy  17:44

Yeah. That's again, I'd like to point out that is with so much work Previous to that, because you basically renovated a building to build your business, which is itself that's maybe a whole nother podcast, how I physically built it. Yeah, it's it's right. It's fascinating to hear you talk about the these, the insights you glean from these early people what they liked what they didn't like, and going into all this, what was your sales and marketing experience?

Carla Bredin  18:17

Oh, well, my, my personal prior experience was zero. And then my experience for Echelon was. So it was, I think I had started out with a bit of a strategy to develop a strategy, if that makes sense. So I had always known that I would put some money aside for marketing and advertising strategy. When it came to it, I had overrun my budget I had, I had pulled all the little envelopes of money that I'd kind of put aside for like training and studio photography and all the additional things that needed done. I had taken the budget away from all of those just to get the Fed out complete. So out of necessity, the market and strategy became a much more organic experience. And so, for me, what I really wanted to focus on was the story of Echelon. And it's an interesting project to take on to tell the story of something that doesn't exist yet. But because I was so clear on what I wanted it to be. I just wanted to tell the story of what it was going To be. And I didn't really know how to share the story other than through my own connections that I built up in the scene and the health fitness, wellness seen in Dublin. So it ended up being zero cost. Just talking to people telling people what I was doing. And like one of the strategies that actually you and I talked about, I'd say, it was maybe late 2017, or 2018. But we had talked about, like my inner circle. So who, who I knew in my circle that would be interested in this business, and that I could not trust but that I could, and depend on to then take the story and share it with their circle. And so it became a very, very much a, I'm telling you about what I'm building, because I care about you, and I want you to be excited about it the way I am. And then to depend on them to tell someone else. So that ended up being the whole marketing strategy, like there was nothing else it was just people caring enough to tell their people and them caring enough to tell other people. And so, obviously, the opening got delayed, but we had set up our Instagram account, and there was a lot of bustle, you know, of people being like, Oh, my God, my friend just told me about this, this is so exciting, then I didn't know this was common. And so there was a lot of very human excitement just bubbling up very naturally in the lead up to opening the doors.

Conor McCarthy  22:25

I love that the there's such immense value in the zero marketing budget strategy that you've just outlined there. I mean, it was it was a hard fact, you had no money to spend. And conversely, I wonder if you had had a budget what you would have done, and wouldn't have been as effective. Because you I think from the sounds, you're going to be saying in terms of marketing, I got nothing. So I am depending on you to, to kind of spread the word of this extremely high quality experience to the people you know, will love it. And I think that's it's a really smart way to do things, but it's coming from exactly the right place, like you 100% believed in Echelon, obviously. But you believed enough that you were willing to say to friends or friends that this might be for you. And if it is, we're here.

Carla Bredin  23:23

Yeah. And I think it is a valid question to look back on and say, if I did have the budget, why would I have? How would I have used it? And like it was it was one of the really difficult. One of the few difficult experiences I had when people would come in. And they'd be like, I only know about this place, because my friend told me about it. Like why have you not advertised it? And so it's a difficult conversation to have with some random person No, this. This was a choice based on x, y and Zed and I had a few people in PR and marketing just been like, Oh, honey, like, This is crazy. Like how are you supposed to build a business if you don't have a strategy in place? And so it would be a really, it was I would just leave those conversations feeling like total fraud been like yeah, I've set up a business and I haven't told anyone but but they're there and reception been like honey, you're a fool. And all five bikes were rented. I was booked for the class so so they were kind of there was almost like an affront to them that they had to hear it hear about it through a friend as opposed to some big publicity drive. Oh, yeah, it was it was a really interesting experience. And I get you know, we all have our expertise. It was wasn't mine. And I was talking to people who had the expertise and were very offended that I didn't invest in them. But I just couldn't take the timeoff this. 

Conor McCarthy  25:11

That's fascinating, isn't it? It's kind of you have, you literally had bums on seats, you had people paying you money to go to your class and to run your business. And that's what it's all about the proofs in the pudding. But yet, there was a number of people, I guess, who were kind of saying, Yeah, but there's a there's a quote unquote, way to do these things. And you're not doing it. So something's wrong. And it's like, Yeah, actually, everything's just fine.

Carla Bredin  25:34

I mean, yeah, like maybe for I don't know, selling it, additional classes or getting ready to open a second studio, you know, all those. The The, the reach matters when it needs to be big boat, but I had started the whole thing been like, I just need 50 people a day. And if I can connect with enough people and talk to enough people, we can get 50 people a day and the business is viable. But yeah, that that experience of like, I had one woman that was just so offended, like, like, I had to hear about this theory of work colleague, why have you not advertised this again? Not an ad, not a billboard? What are you doing over there?  Do you know, if you've ever been part of someone else's first 10, like your friend who is launching a business to ask you to be an early early adopter, let's say an early customer. And I don't, I don't think I have I'd say I have a friend who opened Pallavi studio, and I was definitely one of the first there. And it's an interesting one because I because she was a friend. So I feel like I was there because she was a friend. But if I'm being really honest, I'm still going to the studio because I love it. And I'm still, you know, she didn't give me a free bundle. Like I paid for the classes, and I paid for the experience because I really valued the experience. So So yes, then the answer is yes. Because I i. The reason I was there was as a friend, but the reason I stayed is because I was a happy customer.

Conor McCarthy  27:34

Hmm. Yeah, so interesting. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Carla Bredin  27:39

I don't think I've been I can't think of any other business where I've been like one of the first people like, no, sorry, I can't I can't think of any,

Conor McCarthy  27:55

You are one of my first 10 people. So that's, that's something. What would you say to someone who's starting at listening to this, who has yet to find their first 10? Or maybe in the middle of finding their first 10? What would you say to them about those first 10 customers?

Carla Bredin  28:20

I think I'm always so hesitant to like, give advice and be like, here's, here's my take on things. But something another thing that really stuck with me back in the day, like based on on Raiden that I done was the difference between reach and effect. And a sense, right, so I think it's, I think this is Bernadette jiwa. The difference between being Top of Mind and close to heart. And so, those first 10 like it's really, it's really easy to put a marketing strategy in place and spend lots of money to just kind of spread yourself out there and hope something sticks and hope something lands so reach is not the most exciting or important thing. And those early days I think the effect or being close to heart mattering to someone is what's important and and why those first 10 customers are so important because they will tell you so much, especially when launching a new business there. The people that will tell you about your business. And so they're so, so important and the story you tell is essential, but the story they share back to you have your business is even more important. I like that's coming back to that story of the triathletes like that was the the story I told about Echelon as we offered these kind of three distinct fitness experiences on a stationary bike. But one of those variances was this like really performance have a data heavy endurance athlete story, and they weren't common. So we kept telling the story. And I didn't hear the story come back to me. So I just dropped it. And I focused on the other two. And those are the two things that we really specialise in Echelon on that very few other studios and arland specialise in. So I'm really proud of that have been able to like, Listen to what I wanted to say, but also listen back to the customers and what they were looking for and what they were engaged in with, and then trying to pivot slightly to, to create that experience that was working.

Conor McCarthy  31:44

That's, that's so good. everything you just said is just vital stuff, just by listening to those customers, and and mattering to someone. I think, again, in the early days, before you have lots of people coming to your business, you have a chance to actually engage with a number of them more deeply. Like you've got the time and you've got the the energy to kind of go right what's what's working, what's not working, what do you hear, what do you see? What's the story that you're telling yourself about my messaging, or the idea of my my business in your head that it's such a great to and fro. Yeah, there's real gold to be found there.

Carla Bredin  32:22

Yeah. And like, honestly, that, I feel like if you are in the business of providing a service, then you have to listen to the people who are taking up the service, and genuinely be of service to them. And so listening to that feedback in the early days is really, really important. I will say. And I'm been really honest about this. Like, I also remember the amount of unsolicited advice that came my way in that early days. So feedback is one thing, unsolicited advice is another and I do remember getting quite defensive at times have been like, because I would I would stand there listening to people telling me about my business. And I'm like, is this helpful? Or is this just someone someone's kind of unhelpful opinion on things. And really, the difference is subtle, but it does matter, when you're kind of overwhelmed and overworked and those first few months of starting a business. So I do remember journaling about this and saying at the end of the day, you're in my house. So like you can you can tell me that you don't want sugar in your tea if I offer you tea, but you can't tell me that you hate my curtains like you can sit and slag off my DAC or you know, those those things are different. You can give me your preferences while we're having tea or coffee or wine and cheese or sandwiches and soup or whatever I'm providing as your host, but you can't you can't tear down my house while you're there. Um, so I did. I did come up against that a few times of people being like, why have you not done this? And, and it wasn't a curiosity. It was a judgement. Because every single thing that I did for Echelon was a choice. Every single thing was a choice. It was debated in my head it was worked out it was decided upon what follows Eyes open and heart open. And so if people wanted to know the choice, I was happy to tell them why I came to that decision. But when people were like, started with your decision is a weird decision. Kind of like no, you don't get like, you don't get to tell me that. Because like, This is my house. Yes, ma'am.

Conor McCarthy  35:29

Yeah. That is it. That's a that's maybe a side of customer conversations or just people conversations when you're starting off that is maybe less explored. And as you said, you know, it's figuring out is this judgement, or is this genuinely trying to be helpful? And because it is a fine line, and I love that distinction you make about dance like off my curtains, you can say, I don't want sugar in my tea. But yeah, leave the curtains Adams. And there's a saying that all advice is autobiographical. You know, it's it's coming from something in the other person's past. And it's nothing to do with you or, or your situation right now. But yeah, I suppose being aware of advice. And like, even good advice, because there's a lot of well meaning people who can fill your plate with things you should do, quote unquote. And just to be wary of that as well, I guess.

Carla Bredin  36:25

Yeah. Like, there's so much noise coming. And those are the days from like, especially if you have a fed it in a building situation, like that's a total stress on its own. But then when you're like building a team and creating a story and doing staff training, and sharing that story with the public, and having people come in and experience it for the first time and wanting their feedback and needing to know how it's landing with them. Like, there's just so much going on, in those early days that trying to also navigate people been like, you know what you should do? You should, you should change that wall so that it does x, y and Zed. And it's like, right. Right. Okay. Thank you for your input. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then like that really genuine, helpful, tough feedback that you get, you know, we had one of our very first clients there on day one, sent me a two page email about everything that she was disappointed over. And it was so hard to receive, and so incredibly valuable to read through. And that's the thing, like I was able to pick apart the autobiographical stuff, so the stuff that she just really wanted for herself, and that space, versus the stuff that was actually helpful, and that I implemented in the end. And one of them was to do with mirrors. So we opened the studio with this massive, massive TV on the front wall, because all the bikes connected to the TV. So all the data was was fed back to the class as a group training exercise. And that was one of the things we were like, Oh my god, this is like, way ahead of the game, and people are going to love this. We took the TV died. And I'd say after seven weeks, and we did put up mirrors, and everyone was so happy about it, the room looked way better if a beggar like it was it was something that I had a choice to make. And I could either do the TV or the mirrors, I went with the TV. Then I listened to the feedback between nobody using the TV and people wanting a more kind of almost like a Soul Cycle experience. And so the mirrors went up and it made such a difference.

Conor McCarthy  39:30

Wow. So into Yeah, again, just good old fashioned listening. Yeah. Career you've been, you've been so good with your time maybe just one more question. Is there any books or videos or anything that you can point to, that helped you in this space of kind of understanding people?

Carla Bredin  39:55

understanding people so I think the Bernadette Jiwa or It was a massive eye opener for me, again, because I wasn't really familiar with how to market a business. I just knew what I wanted the business to look like. So her, I read two of her books, one of them was story driven. And the other was marketing a love story. And they just the way she describes talking to people like actually putting your message together and sharing it with real people with real ears and real hearts and real needs. That that I just find really helpful. And she says, I'm so bad at remembering quotes, but she talks about your message being a flame, or a campfire that people want to warm themselves around. And I just love that image. of this is what we do. This is what we offer, this is the service that we are providing. And do you want to warm yourself by it? Do you want to come and have your needs met around it? And I just think that's really beautiful.

Conor McCarthy  41:36

That is really beautiful. And that is that's a great place to wrap up. Actually. That's a that's wonderful. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing all the the ups and downs and the ins and the outs of a business that I know a little bit about a little bit more than most. And it's Yeah, it's a gratitude because you really have put in the hard work. And I have to commend you for that. Because it's it's great to see it up and running. Even though it's strange times we're living through. You've done a great job and yeah, thanks for thanks for being here.

Carla Bredin  42:06

Thanks so much for having me, Connor. Best of luck with with this. It's a great it's a great opportunity for people to tell their stories as well. So I'm excited to be part of it. So thank you.

Conor McCarthy 42:10

And that's a wrap. I really hope you enjoyed this episode, and that there was something in there that was actionable and insightful for your business. Do check out the show notes for more information on what we discussed, as well as ways to contact my guest today. Helping you identify and create those first 10 customers is what I do. So if you like what you hear on this podcast, please do get in touch at www.first10podcast.com, or on Twitter @TheFirst10Pod.